Marriage - James Geoghan and Ann Carroll

[MAY WATERS]

Hi please could anyone help me
I am looking for the marriage of
James Geoghan to Ann Carroll in liverpool
about 1840/3
Ann Carroll was born in liverpool
thanks
May waters

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Can you give us some more information please. What censuses do you have them on and what are the references? I'm assuming that you have Ann's name from the birth certificate of one of the children, perhaps you could give us details from that also.

You might guess from this that I haven't had any luck with a marriage for this couple but the only entries I have found in the censuses is for a Gahagan, living in Widnes.

[Gray]

Hi there,

There is a marr listed on Free Bmd for a Ann Carroll

Liverpool Dec 1839 20 *

No hubby named James Geoghan listed though.. possibly the page was unreadable?

Had a look on Lancs Bmd not listed there at all?

Best of luck,

Gray

[MaryA]

I noticed that entry too Sue and checked the image, the page number is actually missing on the index, I've never seen that before.

However, I checked the page for Geoghan in the same quarter, also without any luck.

[Katie]

Checked that one she married a Hickey. Its possible they married in Ireland

[Hawker]

Hi
There is a marriage for a James Georgeson on Ancestry
1839 Dec quarter Volume 20 page 141
A long shot but it might be your man

[Tina]

Hi Hawker
The Georgeson marriage 1839, there are 4 brides, 4 grooms, nothing that looks like an error for Ann Carroll.

Cheers
Tina

[MAY WATERS]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Can you give us some more information please. What censuses do you have them on and what are the references? I'm assuming that you have Ann's name from the birth certificate of one of the children, perhaps you could give us details from that also.

You might guess from this that I haven't had any luck with a marriage for this couple but the only entries I have found in the censuses is for a Gahagan, living in Widnes.

Hi Thank you for your reply.
the only information I have is on Elizabeth baptism record.
from st anthonys church liverpool.mother ann carroll father james gaghan
mar 1843 which was sent to me by a kind person Kathy donaldson
I have only got elizabeth when she married my G grndad 1860
Mark usher born dublin he died 1880 in manchester age 40.
in manchester and on the census untill she died 1896
I have a death certificate for james who died 1847 age 26 in
liverpool, Elizabeth has always said she was born in liverpool.
I found an ann geahan married to a george walker,but her father name is owen geohagan.not carroll.this as been a brick wall for me for ages.
I will look at the marriage you have told me about in Widnes.
May

[Hilary]

Who was the informant on James death certificate and where did he die?

Do you have Elizabeth with her mother Ann on the 1851 census?

Hilary
Ed officer

[MAY WATERS]

Hi On elizabeth baptism mar9th1843 Ann Carroll is the mother
father James Gaghan , baptised at St Anthonys scotland rd liverpool .
Godmother Mary Ann Leigh,god father Anthony Joyce or Juqice.
I cannot make it out
On the 1851 census Ann Gagan, Eliza age 8 Morgan age 6
Ann is a widow. I have not been able to find a birth for Morgan,
Geoghan is spelt lots of ways.Gagan.Geghan,Gaghan
On James death certificate Ann Is not the informent
it is a
Patrick ,the surname looks like Keenan.or Keenam
and James surname is spelt Gahagan.on the church of St Anthonys
reg of death it is spelt Geoghan
the death certificate is dated 10th dec 1847
and James is 26 and a plumber
the address is st anns place ,st anns st liverpool
The Grave number is 129
Thank you very much for any help you give me
I have been looking for years
May member 7958

[Tina]

By the way folks 1851 as GEAGALL....

Tina

[MaryA]

I have only got elizabeth when she married my G grndad 1860
Mark usher born dublin he died 1880 in manchester age 40.

I'm confused - it doesn't take a lot!

Are you saying that you have this marriage certificate? I'm unable to find a marriage in 1860 for Mark Usher. Please give details from this certificate and does it confirm James as her father, however the name is spelled?

Also is it usual for both names to be given on the baptism? Generally speaking I would have expected it to be Ann and James Geoghan rather than Ann Carroll - perhaps they weren't married at all.

[MaryA]

You may know this, but thought I'd mention it in case you don't - in the 1851 census HO107; Piece: 2185; Folio: 468; Page: 9, Ann, Eliza and Morgan are living in a household with a John and Catherine Doran and their children whilst in a separate household, but in the same dwelling is a Mary Doren and her children, together with John Carroll, 23 Shoemaker, born Ireland and his wife Mary, 25, also born Ireland. Of course they may have no connection, but worthwhile keeping them on file just in case.

[MAY WATERS]

Hi Mary
Thanks for your message.
It was Elizabeth Geoghan ,James Geoghan and Ann Carroll .Daughter
Who married Mark Usher at the Manchester Cath on the
2nd jan 1860 .they are on the 1861 census in Manchester.Deansgate
They were my Grand Mothers Parents
Elizabeth was 18 and Mark was 20
Elizabeth names her Father as James Geoghan a Painter
Mark Ussher names his Father as James Ussher School Master
The wittness were Robert Dalton and Ann Donald
as you know there was another child living with Ann Gagan
in 1851 her name was Morgan?
Ihave found a marrige at Man Cath in april 1860 for a Mary Ann Geoghan age 18
married to a John Toomey age 22 and a shoemaker
John Tommey names his father as James Toomey
and Mary Ann Geoghan names her father as James Geoghan a joiner
do you think this could be Elizabeth sister-as Mark Ussher is a wittness? also Mary Ann Hodgson
I have not found a birth for Elizabeth sister Morgan
And I cannot find Their mother Ann on any census after 1851.
The mind boggels
I hope this Helps
Thank you
May Man/c

[MaryA]

Sorry I hadn't realised the marriage was in Manchester. I had a brainwave wondering if the Ann Donald could be the mother remarried, unfortunately I don't see a marriage in those names

Indications would seem as though Mary Ann was sister to Elizabeth wouldn't it?

I'm suspecting a death for Ann, maybe the reason why Elizabeth moved to Manchester, but there are a lot of them in both Liverpool and Manchester and without even ages for many to guess at whether one could be correct.

As the only census entry for Ann is the 1851 and no others to corroborate her place of birth, I wonder if there could have been an error and whether she could have been born in Ireland and maybe even married there? Am I right in thinking the name Geoghan is probably of Irish descent?

[MAY WATERS]

Hi Mary.
I am not sure ,but there is a place called Castletown Geoghan in Ireland,
I have also asked Passengers who are Irish at work about the name
and they have said it is an Irish name.
We went to Ireland last year but not many knew the name Geoghan and Ussher,?
My daughter in law is Irish but born here in Manchester,
but her dad was born in Ireland and he said it is an Irish name .
Thank you for your time Mary ,It is very kind of you to help me.
See you soon
May-Man/c

[MaryA]

The reason I'm thinking this is because of the other Carrolls in the same house, born Ireland. If Mary was John's sister but somebody else gave the census details to the enumerator, an error could have been made. Have you done any following up about John Carroll at all? it might prove interesting.

[MAY WATERS]

Hi Mary
I will look at that now
Thanks a lot
See you soon
May/man/c

[Tina]

Hiya May
Have a look at this link, it would seem the name originated in Co. Westmeath.
Cheers
Tina

http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=geoghan

[MAY WATERS]

Hi Tina
Thank you .
I will look at that
See you soon
Mat