COLD CASES

Post by **HOLLY** » 26 Oct 2009 19:08

Hi All, I have a 'cold case' which is really more of an iceberg. I'm not too sure this is really a case so before I dig out the paperwork (a possible census return for Teresa) I'll give an outline of what I have and what I want - nothing Census on this one -

Teresa Woods and Charles Fazakerley buy a plot in Ford Cem, circa 1878.

Charles Edmund Fazakerley buried Dec 1878

Then I have 3 more burials, having checked the census and searching about I can't see any link with the owners and the internees, the last of these 3 burials is 1881.

Next burial is 1934 - Eliza Woods - my Gt. Grandmother

Then 2 sisters Belinda and Agnes Howley who are the nieces of Eliza.

So, what I'm thinking is that Teresa and Eliza may be related but who is she and who are the internees? Why isnt she or Charles buried there as well - so many questions.....What would happen to the Deeds between 1881 and 1934 and is there a way of tracing them?

I havent been able to find Teresa on any census, other than one I think may be suspect - fbmd or lancs bmd -

I have queried this before so apologies to those of you who have read this earlier but maybe some new forumer can help - it has been suggested that Teresa and Eliza Woods is coincidence, but I think 3 members of the same family is more than that - so - super sleuthers - can anyone help send me in the right direction to connect Teresa and Eliza - or shall I put Teresa to bed ?

Any ideas, greatly appreciated - Holly

Post by **MaryA** » 26 Oct 2009 19:38

Have you done the simple thing of phoning Ford and asking if there is any record of documentary evidence having been shown of ownership of the grave being in the family when Eliza was buried? and the Howley sisters too for that matter, I can't see them opening a grave without some sort of proof.

I would suggest that you also give the names and dates of the other three burials in case our forumers have any ideas.

I suppose you have checked to see if there is a headstone with any names mentioned?

Post by **HOLLY** » 26 Oct 2009 19:51

Hi Marya, I shall phone Ford in the morning, thanks for that lead.

Names and dates as follows

Nicholas Connor, buried 1879 - aged 84
Mary Rawlinson, buried 1880 - aged 20 mths
Joseph Rawlinson, buried 1881 - aged 40

It's such a long time 1881-1934, something doesnt seem right.

I have been to Ford several times and each time directed to different parts of the cemetery, not found the plot yet. I assume given the age that the headstone has long gone, but you never know.

Onwards and upwards - Holly

Post by **MaryA** » 26 Oct 2009 19:59

If you have the list of who is in the grave you must have the Section and reference numbers. When I went looking for one I took this map with me and had no trouble finding it.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... ordcem.htm

Plenty of headstones older than that still around, fingers crossed you find one.

Post by **HOLLY** » 26 Oct 2009 20:08

Hi again, I have the same map, my plot is SP - the boys there led me on two false trails and one correct! I'll give them a call in the morning and possibly visit during the week.

This little puzzle has niggled me since October 2007 !!!

Thanks for your help - Holly

Post by **HOLLY** » 27 Oct 2009 09:48

Have phoned Ford and the registered owner at the last burial in 1962 is still Teresa Woods!

Post by **MaryA** » 27 Oct 2009 15:31

I saw that you managed another visit to the cemetery - any luck with the headstone?

I'm surprised if they opened the grave without sight of the deeds, I'm thinking that perhaps they have been passed down the family, despite the name not being changed.

If there was a burial in 1962 how many does that make in the grave? although maybe it doesn't matter since there are often quite a few in a general grave, but I believe they are bought by size - I remember my auntie saying her husband was in a grave where her mother was going and then there would be just enough space for herself, so obviously it was dug only three deep.

Post by **HOLLY** » 27 Oct 2009 15:43

Hi, - to confuse me more, Eliza has a daughter named Mary Teresa though I don't know if she used her middle name or not. The lady in the office just said the deeds were held in the name of Teresa and no mention of them being transferred..... All told - 7 in one grave - 1878-1962 - after all that activity I'm not surprised the headstone hasnt survived !
Not to worry I'll just keep on looking - Holly

Post by **Hilary** » 27 Oct 2009 21:23

The cemetery should be able to tell you if there was ever a gravestone. They tend to have this information somewhere often separately but it's there.
Ed Offier

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Oct 2009 09:37

If you are contacting them again about a headstone, perhaps you could ask a few more questions at the same time -

Was the grave leased for a set period of time, ie 50 or 75 years or In Perpetuity?
If it was for a shorter time, was it renewed and can they tell you what date?
Does ownership have to be proved by production of the Deeds whenever another burial takes place?

These questions might not get you very far but you never know.

PS what is the phone number for Ford?

Post by **HOLLY** » 28 Oct 2009 10:33

Hi Marya, thanks for all those questions - I'll gve it a go later - phone no. is 0151 522 1017 - Holly -

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Oct 2009 11:06

Thanks for that, I've added it onto the link with the map, it could be useful to somebody else.

Post by **HOLLY** » 28 Oct 2009 11:49

Hi - I spoke to the lady in the office regarding Ford Cem, she couldnt help me. The only info she had was the owner and internees. The person I need to talk to is away from the office so will try again in a few weeks, in the meantime onwards and upwards !! Thanks for all the leads - Holly

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Oct 2009 14:02

Can only say "Good Luck" and let us know.