Does anyone recognise this location?

[luxor]

This photo was probably taken in the late 1930's. Catherine Agnes McElroy was born, Roman Catholic, in County Leitrim, Ireland. She was probably in Birkenhead in 1901. She married John Stott in a registry office about 1904. They were living in Sirdar Street, Liverpool, in 1911. John Stott was killed in action in France in 1915. Kathleen re-married - Frederick Ernest Atkinson - in 1919 and, AFAIK, lived in Fazakerley for the rest of her life. In the mid 1920's she brought her elderly father, John Henry McElroy, to live with her, but he out-lived her in the end.

Kathleen married Frederick Ernest Atkinson in 'the Parish Church in the Parish of St. Peter, Aintree in the County of Lancaster' on 28th August 1919. FE Atkinson registered the death of John McElroy in 1935, so I would guess that this grave may be in a graveyard attached to the church... but that's just speculation. There is a lot of open ground behind. I'm hoping someone local may spot the location, but it could well be a Tesco by now!

[MaryA]

The open land behind does present a bit of a puzzle but then not all areas of a cemetery were full of Private graves and it could be a mixed area. Best way to check is by Burial Books, I will hopefully be at the RO on Tuesday and will check Kirkdale and Everton Cemeteries - don't be confused by the names, Kirkdale cemetery is in Fazakerley and Everton Cemetery in Aintree.

Just in case there are different registers for different religions, do you have an idea of whether they would be RC or C of E?

[daggers]

The monumental masons' name is at the bottom left of the photo, but I cannot enlarge it without losing definition. It may be a clue to the area of the cemetery. I think it may be ? Jones, at ??? Lane.

D

[Blue70]

It looks a bit like Everton Cemetery to me. J. Jones of Longmoor Lane:-

http://www.jonesuniqueheadstones.co.uk/


Blue

[luxor]

Thanks everyone! Looks like you might work out where it is.

The religion is interesting. Kathleen married in a registry office and then CoE, but I know no reason why John Henry wouldn't have remained Roman Catholic until his death. However, both had moved into Frederick Atkinson's area, and died before him, so he may have organised burials in a CoE section. But I don't know. It would be interesting to find the grave today to see if FE Atkinson was later buried there.

Isn't it remarkable that the family firm of stonemasons is still there, based at the same address, eighty years on?

[MaryA]

It would be interesting to find the grave today to see if FE Atkinson was later buried there.

Leave it with me and I'll try next week. Do you have a date for FE Atkinson's death?

[luxor]

Do you have a date for FE Atkinson's death?

A probate record shows that he died on 23rd March 1937. To John William Atkinson accountant and Thomas Atkinson harbour master.

[MaryA]

Everton Cemetery

Register No. 37604, RC, 20 October 1934, Kathleen Agnes Atkinson, 49 years, Married Woman, 10 Park Avenue, Fazakerley, Private Grave, Order No. 36130, Section 10 Grave No. 291 Performed by David Deegan, Owned by Frederick E Atkinson

38011, RC 11 September 1935, John McElroy, 94 years, 10 Park Avenue, Fazakerley, Sub, 36346, Section 10 Grave No. 291 Performed by David Deegan, Owned by F E Atkinson

38741, RC, 25 March 1937, Frederick Ernest Atkinson, 51 years, 10 Park Avenue, Fazakerley, Sub, 36721, Section 10 Grave No. 291 Performed by G Armstrong. Owner Deceased.

Liverpool Echo entry in Death Column Friday 19th October, 1934
ATKINSON, October 18, KATHLEEN AGNES, dearly beloved wife of Frederick E Atkinson, 10 Park Avenue, Fazakerley (Friends accept this - the only intimation).

There appears no newspaper notice for either John McElroy or FE Atkinson.

[luxor]

Yet again; thanks to Mary. Never beaten... or rarely!

It's really interesting, especially the RC section. So they married CoE, but were buried RC. I'd guess John Henry, and maybe Kathleen, would have been more comfortable that way, and Frederick Ernest may have been less worried. He looked after his step family very well; Kathleen's daughter recalled that the children 'wanted for nothing'. Kathleen and her father's burials were performed by David Deegan; presumably Roman Catholic. Frederick Ernest's was performed by 'G Armstrong' - would anyone know if he was CoE or RC?

[Blue70]

Catholics often married in the C of E years ago. Long after RC marriages were able to be both a religious and legal event RCs continued to use C of E churches. If both husband and wife were RC they would then go on to baptise their children in the local RC church. The thinking of the time was that the marriage was not necessarily committing them to a particular faith but it was more of a legal process.

I can't find G Armstrong but here's Rev David Deegan:-

Name: Rev David Deegan [of The Blessed Sacrament, Rice Lane, Walton Vale]
Gender: Male
Street address: 9 Park Vale Road L9 Walton 384
Occupation: Roman Catholic
Publication Title: 1938 Kelly´s Directory of Liverpool and suburbs
City: Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Country: England
Publication Year: 1938


Blue

[luxor]

Long after RC marriages were able to be both a religious and legal event RCs continued to use C of E churches....Blue

Thanks for that; I had no idea that was the case. With weddings people do like to follow the tradition of their families but, even so, it seems surprising. Not everything in the past fits our logic today!

[luxor]

Would the RC Section 10 be the area marked 'R10' on this map?

https://liverpool.gov.uk/media/3008/eve ... ry-map.pdf

[Blue70]

Yes. My PDF has the section as R/C 10 that must be an updated map.


Blue

[luxor]

Looking at the cemetery on Google, I mainly see grass where I expect to see thousands of graves packed together. Section 10, behind the chapel up to the small roundabout, is typical; there are very few obvious graves:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Eve ... d-2.943128

What am I missing?

[Blue70]

There must be public graves there that would explain the space.


Blue

[Blue70]

Here's a couple of photos showing the area where public graves are located in CE 7 the first photo has the RC chapel in the background:-






Blue

[MaryA]

I think the red mark on googlemaps is the lodge, so walking up to it being on your right from Long Lane, R10 will be opposite it, there are a number close to what would be the path, could be one of those.

[VicMar1]

Hi Luxor,
Enter main gate, take 2nd path on left (opposite Chapel,as Mary indicated) 50 yrds on left side 2nd row back, but its not as pristine as your image would suggest sadly. Time has not been very kind to it,and the 'frame' has been removed,probably after F.E Atkinsons burial perhaps?

[luxor]

Hi Vic,

Thanks a lot. That's very interesting. I would have been expecting it to still be white, or white with a bit of moss. And thanks for the directions; it looks straightforward for any relatives who want to visit.

[MaryA]

Looks like it needs a good jetwash - DON'T anybody take me up on that, it was intended as a joke