Looking for Jane Ferguson

[Margaret Hubbard]

Jane Gillies Ferguson was born in Glasgow in 1868 and moved to Liverpool with her family. Her father Alexander was a blacksmith living in various places but on the 1881 census in Enid Street. She married my great grandfather John Connell (Connelly)in 1886 in Everton. She had three children, Adela who died, John who was my grandfather and Alexander who died in 1892. She registered the birth of Alexander in 1889 but not his death. On the 1891 census she was not with the family but her husband is listed as married ie not widowed. She then disappeared.
Her husband came back to Glasgow and lived with his cousins John and Mary Ann Brash. On the 1901 census he is listed as widowed. He then left Glasgow with Mary Ann and continued to live with her until his death in 1921.
It is Jane Ferguson or Connell I would like to know about. She had an older sister Isabella and younger siblings. I can find no death record in Scotland or England. I cannot find her in prison records and on the emigration lists. There are Jane Connells on the censuses but I have no sense they are her. Can anyone help?

[Hilary]

Jane's marriage took place on 26 DEecember 1885 at St george C of E Everton. Jane Ferguson gave her age as 17, John's age is 22. Her father Alexander the blacksmith. The witnesses are Thomas and Margaret Condliff.

[Hilary]

Ancestry shows 4 christenings to a John and Jane Connell
Adela on 20 Sept 1886
John Elliot born 20 Dec 1887 ch 6 Feb 1888
Alexander bn 16 Sept ch 28 Oct 1889
Indexed as Ton Danela BUT reads Ivy Isabella bn 1 July ch 29 July 1891

If the last child does belong to you John and Jane, she must have been alive in July 1891 to give birth.

In a later census around 1910 Ivy is with the Condliff family as a niece to Thos and Margaret Condliff the witnesses at her parent's marriage. Also in the household is Isabella Ferguson listed as mother in law to Thomas. Margaret is a Ferguson I think.

Thomas Condliff married Margaret Ferguson in 1885 at Everton St Chrystomon

Margaret is Jane Ferguson's sister.

[Hilary]

Just found the marriage certificate for the Condliffs on Ancestry. Margaret is definitely Jane's sister. The father is given as Alexander Ferguson and the witnesses are John Connell and Jane Ferguson. The marriage took place on 25 May 1885

Where's young John in 1901 and later?

[Margaret Hubbard]

This is incredible. I just went on to see what it looked like!
I had no idea of the fourth child. I will need to digest this. Where did Jane go after 1891?

[MaryA]

Hi Margaret, welcome to the forum, glad you "just went on to see what it looked like". Hope we manage to turn up some vital clues for you.

[Hilary]

There's a private tree for Ivy on Ancestry. It might be worth contacting the holder as they may know more.

I haven't found Ivy in 1901 yet but suspect she is in Liverpool somewhere. She's not with the Condliffs I've checked.

I do wonder if jane was just missed off the 1891 census as John is at the bottom of the page and the son on the top of thenext. It would eb easy to do for someone copying off another piece of paper. She has to have been alive at that point to have Ivy.

[Hilary]

I think maybe the marriage fell to pieces or maybe John deserted Jane or Jane deserted him whatever

Jane Connell married James Moffat on 14 Dec 1902 at St Nicholas. She describes herself as a widow he is a widower, father Alexander Ferguson. Witnesses Robert Ferguson and Isabella Ferguson. As family members were there they must have been happy witht he marriage!

[MaryA]

Well yes later when they are living in 4 College Street South, Everton they claim to have been married about then, no children with them though.

[Margaret Hubbard]

This has blown me away. For years I have puzzled over this. Indeed it was to find Jane that I got into genealogy in the first place. And in a few hours the walls are disintegrating.
I can add what is now falling into place. Alexander Ferguson is on the 1901 census at 49 Fountains Rd Kirkdale. The last entry is Ivy Ferguson with a scrawl which could be IvyL 9 granddaughter. I assumed her to be the child of one of the sons.
I knew their witnesses were Condliffes. It did not strike me that the Margaret could be her sister which she is. On The 1881 census Margaret T is her older sister. How stupid is that! Robert and Isabella Ferguson are her siblings indeed.
Who is James Moffatt? There are no divorce papers so she just went off with him I assume (which is actually the family story I was sceptical about).
After 1901 I have the whole set up in Glasgow, Gateshead and Barrow in Furness following the shipyard work.
On her marriage to Moffatt who is listed as her mother?
This is amazing. I am going on holiday tomorrow and it will be hard to do this from abroad so if I don't reply it is not disinterest believe me.
Thank you to those who have written information for me.
How do I contact the private tree for Ivy on Ancestry?

[Hilary]

Mother's aren't listed on English and Welsh marriage certificates.

Probably the bit you'll never know is who left who. John could have left and gone back to Scotland or she could have left. Quite often people waited a few years before remarrying and assumed that the other partner was dead. Maybe that's what Jane did. The marriage is 11 years after Ivy was born. Something/someone has made him back to Scotland!

I would think it's likely that the people in Scotland will think she is the guilty party and the people in England will think he is the guilty party. Her family certainly seemed to have helped with Ivy.

What happened to the son John? - Just answered my own question he's with his father. I wonder why John senior changed their name?

For the tree on Ancestry you just click on the name of the person who has the tree and send them a message - you can only do that if you subscribe to Ancestry.

[daggers]

I don't know how relevant this is but there was a family of clockmakers in Liverpool named Condliffe in the 19th century. Google will tell you more than I can.
D

[Blue70]

If anyone is interested in local clock or watch makers try a search using the database on the link below:-

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/ ... abase.aspx


Blue

[Margaret Hubbard]

There is a clockmaker in the story. John Connell's sister Adela was married to Edward McDonald who was a watchmaker. That marriage ended when Edward McDonald pushed Adela's mother down stairs and she was killed. I am in an airport and do not have the date to hand.I wonder if he worked for / with Condliffe.

[MaryA]

The research will still be here when you come back so just forget it for now and go and enjoy yourself.

[Margaret Hubbard]

I contacted the person on Ancestry who has Ivy Connell's tree but have recieved no reply. Perhaps I have done this wrongly. How would I recieve a reply?
I have been searching the 1901 census for Jne Connell/ Moffat/ Ferguson but to no avail. Any ideas?

[MaryA]

Did you send them your email address? If the message was just received but if they don't have a subscription any longer, they may not be able to reply using the Ancestry system.

[Margaret Hubbard]

I did not send that. If they do not have a subscription any longer will they even get the request? How are they alerted to my request?
Margaret

[MaryA]

I think others might have an answer to that as they have made contact with people in the past. I think, like here, they should receive an email notification to say a message has arrived.

[Margaret Hubbard]

I have not heard from the person who has the tree for Ivy Isabella. Can you suggest how I can find out about her please?