marion marguerite harvey

[kashmir]

This lady was my wifes grandmother born mar1903 dont know where or who her parents were possibly illegitimate and therefore unofficially adopted by family called harvey around the widnes/cronton area we know she was living at 53 moon st widnes when she got married in 1928 can anyone find out who else was living there at the same time or give me any other advice it would be appreciated thank you.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

First of all do you know what her birth name was ? What details are given on the marriage certificate ? Was the space for the father's name left blank?

Would you know if she was given the names Marion Marguerite at birth? as they are quite an uncommon combination. Would you think that she was born in the Widnes/Cronton area or somewhere else?

Have you been able to identify the Harvey family on the 1911 census?

To discover who else was living in the household at the time you would need to check the Electoral Registers which would be held at the library. These will be searchable by address but will only show adults.

There may be other questions that should be asked, some of our other forum members might come in with some, but perhaps what I should have asked before anything else is - are there any of her children living and have you asked them if they have any knowledge of Marion from her stories to them?

[dickiesam]

Hi and welcome,
How do you know Marion was born in MAR 1903. Does MAR mean the month or the quarter?
I assume you have her marriage cert?
Marion M Harvey married Thomas Worrall
Registration district: Prescot
Year/qtr of registration: 1928 / Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 1301.

If you have the cert can you post the names of the witnesses and Marions' father if entered, although this may be an 'adopted' name for the marriage.

[Tina]

Hi crew
There's a birth in W Dby apr qtr 1904 for a Marion Marguerite Holden.
In the last census she's with her parents, so not sure if there is a connection.

[kashmir]

Hi thanks for your input i have a date of birth from her death cert of 25 march 1902 in england maiden name harvey,on the marriage cert which was 14 april 1928 at st bedes catholic church appleton no father named,witnesses were joseph locke and edith a boyle.i would think that harvey was not the birth name,and there are a few harveys on the 1911 census

[kashmir]

Just to add to my previous message this ladies son is still alive and we are close but he knows nothing about her past it was kept secret so it makes us think was the birth illegitimate ther was talk about a big house in liverpool was it servant and master?

[MaryA]

Without knowing the truth of the surname that she would have been registered under, I don't believe there would be a definite avenue to search.

A date of birth given on a death certificate is only as good as the details given by the informant, the lady herself may well have been living with a different birth date all those years and it could actually be the birth found by Tina under the name Holden, which is the thought I had when I asked if you knew her original name.

Is the son the only one of the family left? or might there still be a daughter, possibly in Wales? who could be asked. Sometimes daughters might share a mother's secrets rather than a son.

Somebody's memory needs to be jogged - you say that the son knows nothing about her past yet "there was talk about a big house in Liverpool", so there was actually some discussion somewhere.

Details need to be pinned down, such as was a particular area in Liverpool mentioned? Were family names of the Harveys mentioned?

[dickiesam]

Hi crew
There's a birth in W Dby apr qtr 1904 for a Marion Marguerite Holden.
In the last census she's with her parents, so not sure if there is a connection.

And both parents are apparently still alive by 1925, with children born before and after Marion. The father seems to have a good job as secretary of a clothing company, having worked his way up from book-keeper in 1901. The mother's maiden name is Cooper so no help there. This Marion doesn't look like the right one unfortunately, but a good find Tina.

As MaryA suggests some memory jogging for clues is needed, even the area where Marion was when growing up etc. Wonder who 'gave her away' at her marriage?

There appear to have been 3 possible births to her marriage, daughters in 1929 and 1934 and a son in 1940. Are there any children of the daughters who may have knowledge, family stories etc? Any mention of visits to 'grandparents'?

[Tina]

Thanks D.S re Holden birth.

[dickiesam]

Thanks D.S re Holden birth.

My mother told me I was found under a cabbage in the garden..... I believed her. Then I found my birth certificate!

[Tina]

D.S the Stork brought me!!

[dickiesam]

D.S the Stork brought me!!

First Class flight obviously, not Tourist!

[kashmir]

The 3 births that are mentioned were a daughter in 1929 also called marion who sadly died at the age of 15 next was elizabeth dorothy born in 1934 my wifes mum ,elizabeth died in 2004 she would possibly have been the one with any info but sadly noresearch was being done at the time ,then there was tom who is still alive but knows very little about his mums past .There was also marion friend a lady called esther franey fondly known as auntie esther who used to take my wife and her mum to liverpool .but sadly she has died.When my wife was young in the 60s auntie esther used go to a big house in liverpool they were 3 or 4 story terraced town type houses but they were only allowed on the lower ground floor and had to keep quiet which makes me think she may have been a housekeeper,she was about 13 years senior to my wife grandmother.

[kashmir]

Hi everybody just a small snippet of info on the above we learnt that Marion worked in a shop in Peelhouse Lane Widnes about 1920 could be earlier or later and we believe it was owned by a family called Harvey and that it was a general store .It is a possible Marion was of foreign descent because of her features and colouring maybe european french or spanish and that Marguerite was her mothers surname?.

[MaryA]

I think it might benefit you to check with the library to see what directories they have and also Electoral Registers now you have that snippet.