Edward Alderman Bailey DILLON

[domingo 106]

I am stuck with tracing my great grandfather. His full name is as above, and I believe he was born on 31st July 1870. I'm not sure where possibly Charlton (?), Kent. I can't trace where the Alderman or Bailey in his name comes from. The PRO advise me there is no recorded birth on the 31st July 1970 for the name of Dillon. He shows on 1901 census as living at 41 Rishton Street, Everton, with his occupation being 'house painter'. He converted to RC in 1898 when he married my great grandmother Elizabeth Ann May Shacklady. The family show on the 1911 census as living at 58 Lyell Street; Edward Dillon is absent from the entry but the top line has been left blank. I cannot trace a death registered for him. His parents show as Edward Dillon, a chemist, and his mother as Sarah Ann Mcmillan possibly living in Bradford, Manchester. He had four children including my grandmother Dorothy May Dillon, born 1902.Any suggestions welcome

[MaryA]

I am puzzled about some of the assumptions you have made in your post

I am stuck with tracing my great grandfather. His full name is as above, and I believe he was born on 31st July 1870. I'm not sure where possibly Charlton (?), Kent.

There is an entry in the correct quarter for an Edward Dillon, registration district Wolstanton in Staffordshire.

I can't trace where the Alderman or Bailey in his name comes from.

Has he used them other than for his marriage? or could he just have been trying to impress a new bride?

He shows on 1901 census as living at 41 Rishton Street, Everton, with his occupation being 'house painter'.

What is the birthplace he gave?

His parents show as Edward Dillon, a chemist, and his mother as Sarah Ann Mcmillan possibly living in Bradford, Manchester.

Is the information about both of his parents given on the marriage certificate? The RC Register entry doesn't give the occupations, but neither does it give his mother's name. Where do his parents "show"? On the official certificate, as opposed to the RC Register entry, are the names spelt exactly the same? (always open to a mistake )

Are there any of the children still living who could be asked what year - even if approximately - their father died, alternatively are there any grandchildren who might remember him?

[MaryA]

Having googled his name I have come across both a previous one of your searches and also one from somebody called Ray Kennedy, back in 2001 http://genforum.genealogy.com/dillon/messages/1689.html. He states the address in 1898 is Sleepers Hill, but this is incorrect as Edward's address is 42 Aubrey Street and Elizabeth's is 6 Priory Grove. Perhaps you could see if he would still reply if you responded to his post on genforum.

I am confused (doesn't take much!) as to where you get the Charlton, Kent (birthplace) and in another of your posts Chorlton ?

[dickiesam]

Hi,
I am assuming you got Edward's parents' names from his 'conversion' baptism in 1898.
OL IMMACULATE - bn 1870 - bpt 1898 - EDWARD DILLON - father EDWARD - mother SARA McMILLAN.
How do you know this is the right Edward? If the only confirmation you have is his marriage certificate, I would have a doubt until further confirmation is found.

One problem I have is that I have not so far been able to find a marriage for his alleged parents, and it would not be unusual for a porkie to be told with reference to age and parentage.

Then there is the mystery of the names Alderman and Bailey [where does the Bailey first appear?]... and who is Sarah Ann McMillan? I have found only 3 births [England and Wales] for the latter between 1837 and 1860:
MCMILLAN, Sarah Ann - Cumberland, Carlisle - 1849.
MCMILLAN , Sarah Ann - Somerset, Yeovil - 1855.
MCMILLAN , Sarah Ann - London, Pancras - 1858.

The 1858 birth is a bit late for Edward's alleged YoB, the 1855 is borderline, the 1849 is most probable if a S.A.McM is his mother.

For MaryA, re:

I am confused (doesn't take much!) as to where you get the Charlton, Kent (birthplace) and in another of your posts Chorlton ?

It is on the 1901 census summary page.

[dickiesam]

Hi Domingo,
I see from various 'corners' of the www you have been looking for Edward for a long time. Can you please scan and post here a copy of his 1898 marriage certificate? I want to see the context of those two strange forenames, Alderman Bailey.

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[Tina]

Not at number 58 in Gores/Kellys 1911 (mostly recorded in 1910)
Thére is a George Shacklady, jobber at number 63.
1938 Directory has Mrs Elizabeth Dillon, 63 Lyell St Everton.
There was a Charlton in Kent, now London

[Tina]

1901 (Edward has a middle initial of B) in Anx, a member has sent correction in for surname error.
R.J. Kellett

( my first boss in Old Swan was Mr R.J Kellett, born in Dalton where my Cornies came
from, needless to say we got on like a house on the fire, the nicest man!!)

[MaryA]

Can you please scan and post here a copy of his 1898 marriage certificate? I want to see the context of those two strange forenames, Alderman Bailey.

Your thoughts similar to mine DS, here is the RC Register copy but obviously the details are limited. I would be interested to see the original copy, especially with original handwriting for the signatures.

[Tina]

Good one Mary.
The Tolan's, witnesses, were brother & sister bn Ireland in 1901.
I wonder if Edward's middle names were named after an Alderman Bailey within
the families Dillon & Shacklady??

[moya]

The other two children of Edward & Elizabeth were across the road at their grandmother Shacklady's house, 63 Lyell St. Dorothy May age 9 and Herbert age 3. Regards Moya

[domingo 106]

[MaryA]

I find that very strange, I've never known two different addresses on certificates for the same ceremony before.

[simone]

1881 census.. take it this is the couple you think are parents
RG11; Piece: 4015; Folio: 13; Page: 19
living in Bradford
Edward Dillon 48 foreman in chemical works, b Manchester
Sarah A. Dillon 44 b Manchester

1891
Sarah a widow in Manchester

RG12; Piece: 3231; Folio: 73; Page: 17
Philip Cooper 32 foundryman b Stockport
Elizabeth Cooper37
Agnes Cooper7
May Cooper3
Sarah Ann Dillon 53 boarder

no sign of young Edward with them, so can 't be definite they are parents then?

Can't see an Edward that fits in births, only an Edward Bailey born March q 1870 Rye district and the one Mary mentioned earlier.

I am thinking that even if he considered Edward his dad then he prob was not real dad

[simone]

poss death for the 1881 census Edward Dillon

Deaths Sep 1887 Dillon Edward 56 Manchester 8d 198

[simone]

poss death for Sarah Ann Dillon b c 1837

Deaths Sep 1895 Dillon Sarah Ann 58 Prestwich 8d 309

[dickiesam]

Flying a kite here.....
With no named birth for Edward Dillon, it is possible he was a foundling or fostered child taken in by the Dillon family, perhaps born illegitimately. The Edward Dillon chemical labourer [aka chemist] may have been the only father he knew. Not casting aspersions but could his strange forenames Alderman Bailey be a clue as to who his father really was?

BAILEY, Edward - Manchester - 1869 - ?
BAILEY, Edward - Salford - 1871 - ?

[simone]

yes I'm thinking same as you Brian...could the Alderman denote his father's position in society rather than his name and maybe the Bailey could be the surname

where does the actual date of birth come from... have I missed it somewhere.. it's very specific...

The only birth with Bailey I could see is the one reg in Rye.. which seems to be under Kent at that time according to Genuki? (if I'm reading it right!), although in March quarter

Simone x

[Tina]

No Edwd Dillon in 1894 Directory and no Dillon at 5 Sleepers Hill.(head of house)
Richard Shacklady engineer at 29 Upper High St Everton.

[simone]

Hmmm, there's a Margaret Bailey Dillon born Sep q 1870......Manchester
unfortunately she also dies Sep q 1870

[dickiesam]

By Simone:

yes I'm thinking same as you Brian...could the Alderman denote his father's position in society rather than his name and maybe the Bailey could be the surname.

where does the actual date of birth come from... have I missed it somewhere.. it's very specific...

Hi Simone, I think Edward Alderman Bailey Dillon was born in either Bradford or Manchester, but the birth was not registered as Dillon. Flying my kite a little higher, if a Mr Bailey was the father and the mother was unmarried the birth would have been registered in the mother's maiden name which we would find almost impossible to discover. I think Mr Bailey was an Alderman of a town or city, reflecting his position in society. Fathering an illegitimate child would be a scandal if it became widely known so would, as so many were, swept under the carpet - all expenses paid!

I had found 2 possible Manchester area births. Perhaps Domingo would tell us where that precise date of birth for Edward AB Dillon, 31st July 1870, comes from.