Grandad's uniform can anyone help??

[Sue H]

Attached is photo of grandad in uniform (Richard William Hughes 1903 to 1975)......only know he was on Cunard Liners as a Stewart most of his life. May have been on the Lusitania, definately on Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth but not sure how to search for him on ships yet.

Some confusion, I always thought he was part of the second world war. He sustained injury's that gave him nightmares, we lived with them and often heard him, Nan told us he was injured in the war while helping a friend, he had pushed him under a wire fence to escape he was killed and grandad sustained injuries. People have told me he was too old for 2nd war and too young for first!!

Have tried many sites looking at uniform....to no avail. Although someone said that he does seem to have a row of ribbons, denoting some form of medals

many thanks Sue

[MaryA]

Glad you finally got your photograph posted.

I am no expert but googling for the cap badge, it doesn't seem that this one belongs to Cunard.

The uniform feels more like Police to me. Only thoughts, I have no evidence.

[Sue H]

Mary .....funny you should say that!! Grandad in the sixties use to keep a truncheon under his chair (well you would wouldnt you!!!)......those old fashion ones black with leather handle and pretty hefty, I was never allowed to play with it and he said it was for burglers!!! The reason we dismissed police was somebody said it wasnt a police or firemans uniform....... but so maybe it is

[dickiesam]

Hello Sue,
I originally thought that uniform could be Dock or Transport police but there are no shoulder insignia on the epaulettes. Almost certain there's a whistle tucked into the left-hand breast pocket of the tunic. You can see the chain. Perhaps a security officer, not a 'policeman', manning a company's main gate etc? The ribbons certainly refer to war service, possibly in the MN.

And regarding the MN, was Grandad born in Liverpool 10th August 1902?

Edited: Wrong photo removed

DS

[Sue H]

Hi Dickie...no its not him....... his birthday was 19 March 1903. Does MN mean Merchant Navy.......would he have seen combat, is there anyway of finding his merchant navy record. Thanks for taking an interest.....this picture has puzzled us.

Sue

[dickiesam]

Hi Dickie...no its not him....... his birthday was 19 March 1903. Does MN mean Merchant Navy.......would he have seen combat, is there anyway of finding his merchant navy record. Thanks for taking an interest.....this picture has puzzled us.

Sue

Hi Sue,
Sorry the picture isn't him!
Yes MN is Merchant Navy. There are MN records online but subscription required [1918 - 1941].
The only other Richard William Hughes I could find was born in Llanfairfechan, Caernarvonshire on 28th May 1903. There are plenty of R Hughes to browse through though.

Where was Richard born? You refer to the possibility that he might have served on the Lusitania. That ship was torpedoed on the 7th May 1915 when Richard would have been 12 years old. Is this a family story?

I feel the photo you posted was taken quite a while after he had ceased 'sea service' and taken a shore post, possibly with his last marine employer sometime around the 1950s and 60s. If you have addresses for him in that period perhaps street/trade directories could give you a clue as to what his employment was. It is possible that Electoral Rolls will be coming online relatively soon which would also be a help.

DS

PS: Puzzling over that 'thing' tucked into the second buttonhole down on his tunic. What is it? The uniform itself is relatively nondescript and fairly standard for gate-keepers, watchmen and security personnel. The cap badge is probably a company emblem, if only we could identify it.

[Hilary]

You say Grandad was definitely on the Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary. Where did that information come from?

[Sue H]

Grandad Richard William Hughes was born 19th March 1903 in Bootle cum Linacre. I have with members of the Hughes family tracked his life thro to his death on Ancestry .co He worked at Linacre Gas Works along with his father in the 1920. I have him on all census until 1911. His address on the birth of his first son, taken from my dads birth certificate in 1926 was 199 county road walton. When I was born 1952 the address then was 93 Oldbridge Road speke........we then moved to 5 Branthwaite Close Norris Green......this is where he died.

His employement was with Cunard , which he had to travel too southampton to join. Once he docked in Liverpool, cos Nan took my sister and I to meet him at the end of his trip and we stood on the quay waving at him........I have a photo of nan and grandad with my sister and myself on board Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth at the childrens christmas part.....the year well I think I was about 11 or 12 so possibly 1963/4 . We also had one of the first phone's in our neighbough hood so he could ring nan on his return and he always returned with many exotic presents!!

Having lived with my nan and grandad until 12 and then returning to live with them at 20, I remember him retiring from sea when he had his first stroke. At some stage he became a runner (delivering important documents, rather than posting them) for a Liverpool solicitors firm. After a 2nd stroke that left him unable to work he left and stayed at home with nan

The photo was taken pre 1952 I am 100% sure of. I have a photo taken when I was 6mths old with him and he was a lot heavier in weight. His photo appears to be one taken at same time as my nan when she was a member of the St John's ambulance. Both pictures could not have been taken after 1952 as the photos of them with me they look much older.

The Lusitania......well as I said this could be wrong, and with what you say is wrong. However the Queen Mary/Queen Elizabeth is 100% accurite....he was a steward on one or both of these........a tale he use to tell was he served with a new boy Tommy Steele, and always said he couldnt sing then and still couldnt sing now, when he saw him on telly!!

These are all the clues I have to the picture, I wish I could work this outside site to upload the rest............could put them on face book if you want to compare them with the one Mary upload for me.

Sue

[MaryA]

PS: Puzzling over that 'thing' tucked into the second buttonhole down on his tunic. What is it?

I wondered about that, can't say I've ever seen anything like that.

I also trawled through ebay "cap badges" but didn't find anything like that one, however it's doing that made me think it wasn't connected with Cunard.

[Sue H]

Hi Mary............another thought, looking for information on cunard I came across references to THE WHITE STAR LINE, did they morph into Cunard. ..........the picture I have as a child was taken in the library of either Queen Mary/Elizabeth. Another ship that is in the fog of my mind is the Mauritainier........ For most of my childhood he was away at sea, he use to bring us packs of LP or EP from mostly from america. Although he did bring us once bongo drums......and rang once from southampton to ask Nan would she have a marmset monkey...........the answer being NOOOOOO, I have many a childhood picture with beautiful american dresses he brought back..........but this picture seems to fox all that see it. I did think because Nan's picture is with her in St John's ambulance uniform that maybe he was connected to that, but couldnt find any proof. Also they seem to be the kind of pictures that people had taken if they were going away for a while..........thats me thinking out loud!!

[Hilary]

How about trying one of the Ships or Merchant Navy forums to see if they can help. I came across one called Ship Nostalgia where someone was asking for hat badges to be identified.

It's a shame the family doesn't still have his seaman's papers.

[Hilary]

FMP have one Richd Hughes listed on their merchant seamen records born Bootle but no date of birth.

[Sue H]

what is FMP and he was born in bootle.

There was a fire in 5 branthwaite close in 1973/4 and all the ground floor was lost including all our paperwork. The only thing that survived was a large white leather bound bible, the out side and edges singed but intact inside........which is now lost for ever when everyone died. This would have been the answere to my prayers, as nan wrote everything in it!!

[yappie]

Hi Sue

You may find the following forum of help. I have belonged to it for a couple of years and have found the old merchant seamen who run it are a mind of information.

www.merchant.navy.net/forum

or just google British Merchant Navy Old friends Plus.

Good luck

yappie

[dickiesam]

FMP have one Richd Hughes listed on their merchant seamen records born Bootle but no date of birth.

Hi Hilary,
This seaman appears to have been 33 years old when he signed on to the SS Ardeola as an 'Asst cook' on 22nd May 1925. Probably rules out Sue's man?

Although nothing to do with the main topic, the history of the ship is here
http://www.gue.com/?q=en/node/333

DS

PS: Note for Sue.. FMP is Findmypast.

[dickiesam]

A snippet for Richard Hughes' career timeline...

From Tommy Steele's biography: http://www.tommysteeleinternationalfanc ... GRAPHY.htm
Tommy Steele, real name Hicks, was paid off from the Cunard ship Mauretania on August 7, 1956. Tommy never dreamed that he would not be returning to sea. He was taking a compassionate leave to care for his ill mother. Before he was due to sign on again, the music business intervened, and the rest is history....

There's an excellent history of the magnificent RMS Queen Elizabeth, up to her ignominious and sad end on the 5th of November 1975 here: http://www.ocean-liners.com/ships/queenelizabeth.asp

DS

[dickiesam]

Hi Sue,
I am trying to pin down a time-line for Richard's sea service.... and fit in that photograph.

His address on the birth of his first son, taken from my dad's birth certificate in 1926 was 199 County Road, Walton.

You say he worked at a gasworks until at least 1920, so what was his occupation on your father's birth cert? And since you describe your father as Richard's first son, he must have siblings? Do have their birth certs and father's occupation thereon?

DS

[Sue H]

Many thanks Dickie I did it......took a few times tho


[
Top photo is i think taken same time as grandads.....on the back is written Your loving (unreadable) Sally

This one is of the on board Queen Mary/Elizabeth, I am the one inbetween nan and grandad........I must have been 10 or ll so poss 1962/3

I also looked up Tommy Steele was with Cunard for 1950-55

[Sue H]

Hi Dickie

On Nan and Grandads marraige certificate April 1926 General Labourer

on Dad birth cerificate grandad was Gas Works Labourer 1926

My Uncle Ronnies......is on its way..1928

So it was the Mauretania.......not the Lucetania that he possibly start his MN life

Grandad died in 1975 and he had been at home for a number of years.

[Hilary]

Looking at the National Archives site research guides it seems that they may have more Merchant Navy papers that may include your Grandad but it looks to me as if you would need to go to the Archives to investigate or have a researcher do it for you.

I woild also suggest looking at the directories for Liverpool to see if you can pinpoint when he left the gasworks and went to sea.