Birth or Registration date

Post by **Daisycakes** » 22 Jan 2011 15:03

Hi... My grandmother Elizabeth Riley died in 1968 aged 84 so she was born about 1884? I recently found out her birthday was 9th May so checked fbmd and came upon a birth Liverpool vol 8b page 67 2nd qtr. Duly sent for the birth cert ((great service ordered Tuesday and it arrived this morning))..However it was not the correct one... but I am confused because the birth on this cert was 5th March but registered 16th April ..I had assumed I would have received a birth for the 2nd qtr....I did look to the original image and it does say register soooooooo where am I going wrong

.. it seems its the registered date and not the birth date that fbmd goes by....any guidance please

Thanks Ann

Post by **dickiesam** » 22 Jan 2011 16:35

Hello Ann,
The BMD data on all the family genealogy sites is transcribed from the GRO Indexes. The indexes are grouped into quarters because the registrars would send all their registrations to 'head office' for inclusion in the index at the end of each quarter. The indexes do not have the date of the actual event and has only the briefest of data; name and the location of the registration entry. Only the original copy of the BMD entry carries the event date.

The Index tells people where to look for the 'original' event document. It is common for a BMD to occur in the final days of a quarter and the registration is done in the early days of the following quarter.

Bear in mind a mother had 40 something days, over a month, to report a birth. The child could be born in late August but not registered until October. The birth would therefore appear in the December qtr index.

Hope this explains the situation...?
DS

Post by **northmeols** » 22 Jan 2011 16:37

it depends on the date it was registered as this is the date for the register...I WOULD CHECK THE 3RD QTR.... if they did not register the birth until july it would be in those qtrs books

Post by **Hilary** » 22 Jan 2011 16:40

To add to above you have 6 weeks to register the birth.

You say the lady died in 1968 and so born about 1884. Was she married or unmarried? The reason I ask is that if she was married her birth will be in her maiden name not her married name.

If married do you have a father's name and occupation. If yes you could write or ring the GRO and ask for birth search giving all the information such as father's name and occupation and probably birth date.

If not do you her on census? If so this will hopefully give her parent's names.

Lastly someone may have remembered her birthday but the year could be a year either side.

It might be worth searching for a baptism sometimes these give date of birth as well.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **dickiesam** » 22 Jan 2011 16:45

Put her birth name and parents up here and we'll all have a look for her. Did she have a second forename or even just an initial in any census or on her marriage cert?

DS

Post by **Daisycakes** » 22 Jan 2011 17:05

Hi.. Thank you for your replies ...I should have said I do have info on her family etc... I was kindly helped by some members some time ago.. however was never able to come up with her birth cert and being a stickler for tying up lose ends I just need to track down the cert to be sure I have the right family. I have been doing just that for some time but no luck...I do have a marriage cert and her father was Thomas Riley a Brewer and on checking deaths he may have died in 1885/86 and I had the notion that maybe Elizabeth was never registered because of the bereavement etc

... well maybe

Hilary...sounds like a plan to me

... will ring the GRO next week... thanks

Ann

Post by **Daisycakes** » 22 Jan 2011 17:26

Hilary....Can the Southport GRO do a search either side for me or do I contact the Liverpool office?

Thanks Ann

Post by **dickiesam** » 22 Jan 2011 17:44

Thinks.....
I assume that Elizabeth is living with her mother Catherine in the 1891 census? RG12 / 2931 / 52 / 49.

If that is her, she and her mother are living in Toxteth Park. Is it possible they were living in TP when she was born.
Births Dec 1884: Riley, Elizabeth - Toxteth Park - 8b - 191.

This birth would have been registered any time between the 1st of October and the 31st of December. The birth event, in theory, could have happened up to 6 weeks earlier, say the early part of August. The birth event might even have been a month or two earlier and simply registered late.

DS

Post by **Daisycakes** » 22 Jan 2011 18:01

Hi DS....That Catherine Riley is transcribed as single so didnt follow it through as Elizabeth is a Riley as was her father. However when I looked at the 1891 census some time ago any other single person was transcribed as just an S... so do you think maybe theres an error there and perhaps Catherine was in fact married. THere is a Catherine Riley married to Thomas on the 1881 and he is a brewer also. My subs on Ancestry has run out so cant check any further at the moment ...
Ann

Post by **Hilary** » 22 Jan 2011 20:29

Try Liverpool first. If no success you may have to ask for a search at the GRO giving all the information you have.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **MaryA** » 22 Jan 2011 20:57

The local Register Offices are often more sympathetic towards a wider search, so I'd agree with Hilary, however the GRO will do more than they state on their website, so always give them the benefit of the doubt as they will probably check for you if the name isn't too common.

Post by **dickiesam** » 22 Jan 2011 22:40

DAISYCAKES wrote:Hi DS....That Catherine Riley is transcribed as single so didnt follow it through as Elizabeth is a Riley as was her father. However when I looked at the 1891 census some time ago any other single person was transcribed as just an S... so do you think maybe theres an error there and perhaps Catherine was in fact married. There is a Catherine Riley married to Thomas on the 1881 and he is a brewer also. My subs on Ancestry has run out so cant check any further at the moment ...
Ann

Hi,
In the circumstances I wouldn't rule out Catherine for not being a widow in 1891. I've seen several cases where widows have been shown as single, just as several widows and widowers are shown as married.

Do you have the census reference to hand for the 1881 sighting of a Catherine and Thomas Riley?

DS

Post by **Daisycakes** » 23 Jan 2011 21:32

Hi DS....Changed my email address on my profile and ended up locking myself out of the forum last night

... OOPS... so could not reply ...All sorted now with Hilary and Peter Jolliffe's help.

The Catherine and Elizabeth you found was registered in the 4th qtr and my Elizabeth was born 9th May ...but I will check it out cos ya never know!!!!

Thanks Ann

Post by **dickiesam** » 23 Jan 2011 23:21

Hi Ann,
Unless you have a document, such as a family Bible, that gives Elizabeth's birthday as the 9th of May I wouldn't take it as 'gospel' [no pun intended].

I have had birthdays given to me that were slightly off such as the 6th of the 9th instead of the 9th of the 6th, and so on. The worst example was a cousin who told me he was sure his wife's impossible-to-find g.father was born on the 12-01-1875. In fact I eventually found him he was born 01-12-1875!

DS

Post by **Daisycakes** » 26 Jan 2011 18:55

Hi...I phoned Southport GRO this morning and they were so helpful....waiting now for a cert for Elizabeth fingers crossed they come up with my one....I did wonder whether ordering a cert in this way is perhaps better than the guessing way I have ordered in the past on the internet.

Ann

Post by **Daisycakes** » 22 Feb 2011 15:43

Hi At last received reply from GRO re my grandmother Elizabeth Riley...unfortunately they cannot find a birth cert for her 1884/5/6 ....so my brick wall is still standing.

Actually they refunded £9.25 ..which was good

. as I hadnt realised they would refund the whole amount.

Thanks for your help with that...

Ann