The Murray Family of Liverpool

[winstonevertongroovy]

I'm 57 in a few months and for most of that time I've been a proud Murray of Scottish descent, I have Murray plaques, Murray badges, a scarf in the Murray tartan, Murray this Murray that, everyone that knows me knows all about the Murray clan and the Duke of Atholl, (I even have one of those Scottish Laird titles and a 4" square piece of land in a wood somewhere in the highlands, well ok it's a bit bigger but I doubt I'll ever get to even see it), and now I'm sitting here wondering who I am!..................Lee McMorrow of Ireland?, I need to go much further back, who knows, with all the crossing back and forth that went on between Scotland and Ireland over the centuries I could be anyone.

[winstonevertongroovy]

You need to find your Peter and Mary in 1911. The Peter son of Peter and Grace is recorded with them in that census and as single. Also Peter married to Grace is not listed as a labourer whilst your Peter's father Peter is on the marriage certificate.

Definitely need Grandad's birth certificate.

From 2012 but still confusing as I can't find Peter and Grace together on a 1911 census!

[Bertieone]

Lee,

No sign of Peter & Grace 1911 census.

Possible death for Grace Murray

1901, Sept Qtr, West Derby, 8b 381, age 64.

age at death corresponds with her age on the 1841 census which more likely to be correct.

Baptism on Scots People,

Mary Ann Grace Carruthers, 1837, Parents, John Carruthers/Helen Glover?

she probably dropped the Mary Ann.

[MaryA]

Well done on putting the image up, but I agree that surname isn't very clear and Lynne makes a good point about phoning them, they are helpful and might try to read it for you.

Another site I've recently used with some success is Dusty Docs http://www.dustydocs.com/country-show/2/Scotland.html

Choose your county and drill down a bit to the place of interest and see if you can come across anything.

[Bertieone]

Everton Cemetery,

Grace Murray,
Buried 4 August 1901,
Prince Edwin Street

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=397848

Will not open with IE browser,

Need Firefox or other.

[winstonevertongroovy]

Wow yet more crazy info, I have a possible 6 d.ob.'s for Grace now as I have for Peter/Patrick. The Mary Ann would make sense though as that name has come up on a few records I've looked at, (and believe me I've looked at a lot!), what I did yesterday was treat all this as though I only knew my grandfathers details so I could see where Patrick and Grace were arrived at back in 2012 when you guys started me off, the problem is I have 3 d.o.b.'s for him, his death certificate states 1883, marriage certificate 1888 and Merchant Navy card 24th June 1889!, the date I believe to be correct is 28th June 1883 but I couldn't find anyone that I could concretely say was him as there seems to be no birth records of a Peter Murray actually born on those dates. The one thing that I've found is that there seemed to be so many people back then that not only had the same names, (as in say a Patrick and Grace Murray living with their son Peter), but they actually lived in the same area, I have so many links that might or might not be links and there's even someone called Patrick McMorrow on the 1871 census living about 2 doors down from Grace, her mother and siblings and the Patrick Menor that is supposed to be my Peter/Patrick Murray/McMorrow! I'm sure you guys know what it's like to be surrounded with scraps of paper full of names and computers with even more info stored!..............if I can get my Grandfather Peters birth certificate then I can maybe get his mothers name and we can either say Grace for definite, (pun intended), or look elsewhere.

[winstonevertongroovy]

I have been looking for Grace after 1901 and maybe the possible death around that time explains it.

1901 Census – RG13 Piece 3481 Folio 186 Page 40
7 House, 18 Court, Prince Edwin Street
Peter Murray 54 (Telephone wireman Ireland) (1847)
Grace F 53 (Scotland) (1848)
Peter 19 Carter
George 33
Sarah 32 (George & Sarah married)
Thomas 7
Susannah 1 (George & Sarahs children)

1911 Census – RG14 Piece 22168
14 Cavendish Street
Peter Murray 68 Widow B Leitrim, Ireland (1843?)
Lodging with William & Catherine Johnston
Grace seems to have died age 77 (WD 8b 322)

[Bertieone]

GRO reg

Mothers maiden name, Carruthers

[winstonevertongroovy]

IS that my Peter though?, I know Patrick, Grace, Peter etc. all lived in or near Prince Edwin Street but as I said there seems to be so many with the same names, is there a date on there other than 1883 as in a month and day and what is it off please..........ah just noticed GRO, not sure if I registered with them years ago or not, I'll look now.

[Bertieone]

Here is birth reg of his brother who died aged 1, 1882

[winstonevertongroovy]

Baptisms

CARRUTHERS
MARY ANN
JOHN CARRUTHERS/HELEN GLOVER FR527 (FR527)
F
30/08/1835
812/
20 207
Annan

CARRUTHERS
MARY ANN GRACE
JOHN CARRUTHERS/HELEN GLOVER FR541 (FR541)
F
30/12/1837
812/
20 235
Annan

Did John and Helen possibly have a daughter 2 years earlier that maybe died?

[winstonevertongroovy]

The problem I have right now, (and please feel very free to tell me off if I'm being stupid), is being 100% certain that MY Grandfather Peter is the same one we have with mum Grace and dad Peter/Patrick, this is purely because I've seen so much data my head is spinning, it certainly looks like it seeing as they were living in the same street in Everton but because I don't know my Peters real d.o.b. etc. I don't know for certain and I don't want to go off on a wild goose chase, my uncle, (who is the last surviving child of my granddad), is nearly 88 and doesn't remember his gran and granddads names or if his dad had any brothers and sisters BUT his memory is pretty bad now and he was away at sea all of his life, (and drunk when at home for the odd day or 3).

[Bertieone]

Lee,

Peter's death
is his date of birth on the death certificate and who registered his death?

[winstonevertongroovy]

I haven't a clue Bert

[winstonevertongroovy]

Just looked again at the entry for his death and it says d.o.b. 28th June 1883, (which is the one I believe to be correct), and Liverpool N 10d 542.................if I order his death cert what other info should be on there?

[Bertieone]

Don't do that unless you are certain that's his death.

was he ever a Postman?

[winstonevertongroovy]

Not that I know of, he was a fireman/stoker etc. in the Merchant Navy..................I can only find one Peter Murray that died in Liverpool in September 1969 and I'm 100% sure that is when he died, I'm also pretty sure he was born 28th June 1883 so that has to be him.

[Bertieone]

If your sure, get the PDF version from the GRO, a copy that's cheaper, I think they are still available.

If the death was reported by a family member the details they give are likely to be more reliable.

[winstonevertongroovy]

One other spanner to throw in the works is that according to Ancestry on the 1871 census there's a Patrick Menor living with Grace etc at 33 Muirhead Street, Lanarkshire but putting that data into Scotland's People comes back with nothing, there is however 1 or 2 Patrick Morrow's in the same area at the same time on SP and remember Patricks father is down as McMorrow and there was a George E Morrow aged 9 months at 33 Muirhead Street in 1871, (I could use some credits to get the actual street name), could the name Morrow have been mistaken for Menor and if so why would Ancestry have it but not SP?..................are things always as muddled as this!

[Bertieone]

Ancestry is full of transcription errors which doesn't help.

On saying that, there wasn't a George E Morrow born either.

I wouldn't waste credits on that at the moment.