Green/Rankin Family Tree

[Bertieone]

deleted, sorry

[dickiesam]

Hi Bert, I think he needs the birth of the 'middle' JBG to find out the parents' names. Middle JBG was bn abt 1855 to 1858 I think....
His death:
Death: GREEN, James Benjamin
Registration district: Prescot, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1896; Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 38 [a guesstimate perhaps?]
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 439

What was his age on his marriage cert?

[Bertieone]

DS,
23,

removed misleading info

[Bertieone]

most likely this one

RANKIN Jane W Derby 8b 220 west derby 1860,

she declares herself 19 on marriage cert

[dickiesam]

DS,
23,

Hmmm, wondering if he deliberately lost a few years when he married or had to guess when he was born. Either case is not uncommon.

[MaryA]

Have we had any clues re James B Green earlier than the 1881 census?

1881 128 Park Hill Row, Toxteth Park
James B Green Head M 24 Bread Baker Liverpool
Jane Wife M 20 Liverpool
Mary C daur 1 month Liverpool

Matches with the 1891 census, of Baker so birth approx 1857

[Bertieone]

Perhaps DS to marry a young thing, wouldn't we all

[dickiesam]

DS,
23,

Hmmm, wondering if he deliberately lost a few years when he married or had to guess when he was born. Either case is not uncommon.

He may have been mistaken about where he was born. He says Liverpool in 1881, but that may be the place he remembered and where he was raised. This birth place fits with the 1855 death of another JBG, his possible father. Just hope it's not the same person!

The only Lancs registered birth, 1850 to 1860!
Birth: GREEN, James Benjamin
Registration district: Manchester
Year of registration: 1855; Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8D; Page no: 187

Maybe his birth wasn't registered after all? Was he baptised though?

[MaryA]

Interesting I suspect he met Jane through his job since her father was William a Baker. Also interesting is that he signed his name, she made her mark, so it would seem that he was more educated.

The marriage took place on 9th May 1880 at St John the Baptist (C of E) and both witnesses were presumably from her family - Brian and Ellinor Rankin. His address was 23 Frank Street and hers 17 Frank Street.

[Bertieone]

JBG
Christening, Manchester, 13 Aug 1855, Father, James Green, Mother, Maria

Family Search

[oldengineer]

DS,
23,

Hmmm, wondering if he deliberately lost a few years when he married or had to guess when he was born. Either case is not uncommon.

He may have been mistaken about where he was born. He says Liverpool in 1881, but that may be the place he remembered and where he was raised. This birth place fits with the 1855 death of another JBG, his possible father. Just hope it's not the same person!

Birth: GREEN, James Benjamin
Registration district: Manchester
Year of registration: 1855; Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8D; Page no: 187

All my searches keep going back to this, but how do I find out the parents details from this? Do I have to order the birth certificate and hope that its the correct one, I think I am going round and round in circles

Thanks for all your help so far its much appreciated.

[MaryA]

I think there may be more to it?
What do you think of these entries?
1871 - 100 Henderson Street, Toxteth Park
Catherine Green Head Widow 42 Annuitant Merionethshire
James Son Unm 14 Shop Boy Lancashire, Liverpool
RG10; Piece: 3799; Folio: 67; Page: 15

1861 - 10 Court, Barkers Building, Toxteth Park
Daniel Griffiths Head M 50 Rigger Towyn, Merionethshire
Elizabeth Griffiths (His Mother) Unm 78 " "
Mary Bremner Daug Wid 48 " "
Catharine " " Unm 16 " "
James Green Orphan Unm 5 Liverpool
RG 9; Piece: 2702; Folio: 52; Page: 31

I could be way off track but feel the coincidence of Merionethshire between the two families is rather strange.

[MaryA]

Bert's find looks to be a good one.

[dickiesam]

RE:

All my searches keep going back to this, but how do I find out the parents details from this? Do I have to order the birth certificate and hope that its the correct one,

If you want to try for a birth cert 'on spec' from the GRO you can open a page to enter parents' names like this:

When you go to the GRO site and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the relevant Birth or Marriage Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in, even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc]. Don't enter anything else here.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents including the mother's maiden name in the case of a birth cert application. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they don't find the cert with the exact details you specified they will refund your payment.

[MaryA]

This might be this family
1861 - 10 Baxter Street, Hulme, Manchester
James Green Head M 38 Gas Operative Lancashire Manchester
Maria Wife M 38 Ireland
Mary Ann daur 15 Weaver Cotton Cheshire Bollington
Henry son 11 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire
James son 8 " " "
Maria daur 6 " " "
John Thomas son 4 " " "
William son 2 " "
RG 9; Piece: 2888; Folio: 24; Page: 42
It might be just coincidence but next door at #8 is also
Mary Green Head Widow 24 Calico Weaver Lancashire Manchester

and in 1871 at 3 Parker Street, Hulme, Manchester
Henry Green Head M 21 Gas Fitter at Gas works Manchester
Margaret Wife M 23 Formerly Weaver "
John H son 3 "
Martha M daur 1 "
James Green Head M 51 Lab at Gas Works Middleton, Lancashire
Maria Wife M 57 Formerly Weaver Ireland
John T son 14 Manchester
RG10; Piece: 3995; Folio: 62; Page: 23

however in 1881 at 3 Carter Place, St George, Manchester
James Green Head M 53 Labourer Cheshire N.K.
Maria Wife M 53 Ireland Co. Kildare
John son 23 Stoker Manchester
RG11; Piece: 4005; Folio: 92; Page: 26

So this either discounts that baptism being our John Benjamin or he was estranged from his family and wasn't claimiing his father as being alive, however there's nothing to say that the father was at sometime or another a carter.

I would suggest NOT ordering that birth certificate until you make a better decision about this family.

[dickiesam]

Hi Mary,
If the James Green you found as a 6 year old orphan in 1861 is the right one, it is the same situation as being illegitimate. Almost no hope of finding the father or where he came from despite apparently being 'adopted' by 1871 by Catherine Green, perhaps formerly Bre(a)mner...

BRAMNER, Catherine
Registration district: Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Year of registration: 1845; Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: XXVII; Page no: 94

EDIT TO ADD:
RE:

So this either discounts that baptism being our John Benjamin or he was estranged from his family and wasn't claiming his father as being alive, however there's nothing to say that the father was at sometime or another a carter.

We are seeking James Benjamin....

[MaryA]

Yes, my thoughts. But at this stage can only put forward some findings for others to think about.

[Bertieone]

JBG married a second time,

JBG, 35, widow, Baker, Father, JBG, deceased, carter,

Alice Langton, 20, spinster, Father, William Langton, carter,

Witnesses, George Dixon?, Maria Twist.

29 Oct, 1892, Prescot, St Helens.

He appears to be consistent with his age which again is close to the Manchester birth, the only problem is, I have generation after generation of Richard Henry's on Marriage certs but only Richard on some birth certs, could be this is the case with JB.

[MaryA]

I have generation after generation of Richard Henry's on Marriage certs but only Richard on some birth certs, could be this is the case with JB.

I think it's a possibility, often a middle name is added at baptism. I don't think there should be a rush into purchasing a birth certificate until more investigations between the years of the marriages and 1857 ish have taken place to try to find more clues. Old Engineer, due to your admitting a little inexperience, I hope you don't mind me suggesting hesitation for the time being rather than rushing in with your money.

[oldengineer]

I have generation after generation of Richard Henry's on Marriage certs but only Richard on some birth certs, could be this is the case with JB.

I think it's a possibility, often a middle name is added at baptism. I don't think there should be a rush into purchasing a birth certificate until more investigations between the years of the marriages and 1857 ish have taken place to try to find more clues. Old Engineer, due to your admitting a little inexperience, I hope you don't mind me suggesting hesitation for the time being rather than rushing in with your money.

Thanks for all your help, yes I think I will wait for a while until more investigations are looked into. I really appreciate the time you are all taking to look into this for me as I seem to have come to a standstill as to where to and what to look for.

Many Thanks