Thomas William Patterson - mother Amy

[padjo1]

Hi Simone

Some information on Vera Patterson, which was sent to me from fellow ancestry member.

He sent me a file a short while ago and I have struggled to get the file to open, but I have managed it this afternoon.

It states Vera's father as Thomas, and the address matches as well

How have you attached the marriage certificates you located, if you can advise me I will attach it as well. Coincidence father called Thomas ????

Strange though, why is he on baptism record and not on birth certificate.

[MaryA]

To show a photograph in your message

[padjo1]

Thanks Mary

will give it a go, fingers crossed

[padjo1]

Hi

Hopefully managed to upload the copy



Fingers crossed

[simone]

Maybe she put a father's name to avoid embarrasment some did or maybe he was the dad but they never married

will have a look around census and marriages again

[padjo1]

Hi Simone - Valid point

Would you have any idea of whether children born in a workhouse would have been baptised, no trace of anything for Thomas William, or Elsie , or would this have been in the workhouse records?

Thomas William, married my Grandma, in a RC Church, appreciate he could have been baptised around the time of their marriage, however he was not RC faith.

[simone]

not too sure... I know my great grandfather, born in Tranmere workhouse, was baptised 6 weeks after birth, the same day as his parents married in Liverpool.

I don't think it would have been done as a matter of course in the workhouse. Still down to the family assume.

maybe with Vera being the first she felt it the right thing to do..

can't see a Thomas who fits at the moment.... there is one lodging in 1901 at Stanley Road, Birkenhead, a General labourer
RG13; Piece: 3393; Folio: 194; Page: 39.

but he turns up again in 1911 lodging in Church Road Birkenhead
RG14; Piece: 21959

maybe it was him

all the other Thomas Patersons'/Patterson's seem to tie up with marriages

if only we could get one little snippet

[simone]

wonder why born at 7 Davies st and not 3

maybe electoral rolls need looking at

[Alison C]

Hello,

How about this from the 1881 census for Amy:

13 Robertson Street, Toxteth Park

Thomas Thomson, Head, 24, Labourer
Fanny Paterson, Sister, 41, Widow, Housekeeper
John Paterson, sister's son, 17, Carpenter
James Paterson, Sister's son, 10, Scholar
Amy Paterson, sister's daughter, 0
Thomas Paterson, brother-in-law, single, 31, labourer

I assume Thomas Paterson is Fanny's brother-in-law. Fanny was born in Chester, the others in Liverpool.

I can't see a marriage for Fanny Thomson to a Paterson though

[simone]

Hello,


I assume Thomas Paterson is Fanny's brother-in-law. Fanny was born in Chester, the others in Liverpool.

I can't see a marriage for Fanny Thomson to a Paterson though

wouldn't he be her husband

good point though Alison, maybe Amy used her father's name for the baptism

[simone]

if Fanny is married to Thomas, then maybe it is a second marriage..son John is 17 and Thomas Paterson is only 31

[simone]

sorry Alison... with you now didn't notice Fanny was a widow

[padjo1]

Hi Alison and Simone

Thanks again for your help.

I had a look at this, but could not find a connection, but this was sometime back.

I have found a marriage for Frances Thompson, who married a James Patterson in 1863, in Liverpool, looking now for more information on this family.

[padjo1]

Hi ladies

Just on my request for information regarding baptisms in a workhouse. Vera was not the first, it was Thomas William. However Simone you are probably correct, as was thinking if Thomas was born in a workhouse, then Vera at an address a couple of doors from home and Elsie in the workhouse. Maybe she felt the pressure to have her baptised as she would not have had to advise the other 2 were not.

Just can't help thinking what must have happened on or around 1911, for Vera to be born a few doors away, and what went wrong if anything, why ??was Amy back on the other side of the river and giving birth at the workhouse again.

ohh my brain is puzzled, time for bed I think. Start again tomorrow night

Thanks

[Tina]

Wow! you have all been busy trying to trace Amy.
I hope you slept well Padjo with so much going on
Have you searched in Genes Reunited at all?
If not I'll have a squizz for you.
I'm sure you have to have permission to put a father's name on a document. The crew will know.
Thomas as the father & first child born was Thomas......

Tina

[simone]

Hi ladies

Vera was not the first, it was Thomas William.

Thanks

sorry realised that after I went to bed


such a puzzle this one...

shame the Elsie marriages don't tell us which church we could then check if right Elsie...also if that is Vera's death... where is she buried, the burial record may give a clue...... what happened to her maybe there is an obituray in the Echo

other than that, my only other suggestion is the electoral rolls for the years the children were born to see who else there

work today see you later

Simone x

[Tina]

GR8 suggestions Simmo..
Don't work too hard me dear

Tina

[padjo1]

Hi ladies

This is a team of wonderful reasearchers, off to work shortly and not back until late, however a few updates after speaking with Mum.

Correction about Vera and Elsie not attending Thomas William and Margaret Ann's wedding

It was they never attended their daughter Elsie's wedding, Elsie asked Grandad if they where attending, no was the answer he knew where they were if he needed them ?? - Elsie the daughter of Thomas William and Margaret Ann Coogan, married in July 1953, where they still both living at this time ???. If so then the Vera Death cannot be her??

The school Grandad left approx 14 years old was St Augustines, known locally as Salisbury Street, school, in the same area as Mansfield Street.

Don't have Genes Reunited, so thanks you for your offer of a look up, really appreciated

bye until later

[simone]

Hi

Just throwing these names in, in case anyone recognises them

1911 census, Davies Street, Birkenhead
No 3 Davies Street has
James, (b c 1887) and Catherine O'Loughlin and family
marriage 1906 James O'loughlin/ Catherine Riley
also
Michael Rowan b c 1875 and wife Catherine and family
marriage 1909
Michael Rowan/ Catherine Regan

No 7 Davies Street has
William Haddock b c1883 and wife Mary and family
marriage 1907
William Haddock/ Mary Ellen Murtagh
also
Robert Nott b c 1873 and wife Jennet and family (shown as Janet on 1901 census and surname as Knott)
can't find their marriage and they state married 12 years so in 1889
only 1 I can see is Robert Lloyd/ Janet Whitby Stoward

[Tina]

Hiya All
Nothing in G/RU for Amy or Thomas
2 posts, one for Vera and one for Elsie, long shots.
Have sent requests.
Tina