Descendants of Joshua McDonald

[GeirGG]

Hi,

I have previously been so fortunate as to get some help tracking Joshua McDonalds family backwards in time. This time I was wondering if it was possible to see if there were still relatives alive on the British Isles. I am doing this on behalf of my mother-in-law, and plan to present her with all my findings for christmas, so all the help I can get will be highly appreciated.

What I know is this:

- Joshua and Sarah get married:

Marriage between Joshua McDonald 21 Occ. Blacksmith, and Sarah Lucy Widders 19:
Year: 1890 at St. Peter's Chapel rites and ceremonies of the Catholic church
Fourteenth October 1890
Residence (both) 91 Upper Fredrick Street
Father of Joshua is Joshua McDonald (Deceased) Occ. Basketmaker
Father of Sarah is John Widders (Deaceased) Occ. Boatman
in the presence of: John Ford and Katie Chandler
Liverpool 8b 288

- The 91 census, Joshua and Sarah nee Widders are alone.

- Here they are in 1901:

1901 census, Albert Terrace
Joshua, head, 30, Blacksmith
Sarah wife, 30,
John, son, 9
Sarah, dau, 10,
Lizzie, dau, 4
All born Lancashire,
Rg 13 Piece 3388, Folio 79 Page 43

- Joshua left the family with Sarah's best friend (this is what we have heard), and no one knows what happened to him.

I know that Sarah (Ann) the daughter went to Norway (and brought her mother with her), and that Lizzie went to America, but what happened to John? Could there still be descendants of him in Great Britain?

Thanks for all the help I can get with this!

Regards
Geir

[MaryA]

We have attempted to collect a few suggestions as to how to trace living relatives, here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =14&t=8154

Good luck

[dickiesam]

Hello again Geir!
Do you have a birth cert for Joshua McDonald bn abt 1871? If yes can you tell us his full date of birth? And ditto for his son John bn abt 1892?

[GeirGG]

Hi again dickiesam,

I have not managed to find Joshua, and I have tried (and also had a lot of help trying). I have even ordered an unknown McDonalds birthcertificate, but it wasn't him. Some people have said that it wasn't mandatory before 1870, so that might be the reason. Or it might not have been transcribed yet.

I haven't ordered Johns yet, though I presume that would be possible (but not in time for christmas). So all I know about him is what I've got from the censuses.

Sorry I know this wasn't a lot of help.

Thanks
Geir

[simone]

Hi Geir

did Joshua have a sister Hannah? there is a baptism for Hannah 1876 to Joshua and Sarah.

Could this be John in the '11 census
RG14; Piece: 22157
John Mack Donald 20 single, boarder, 26 Wilton Street, Liverpool

or mabe
RG14; Piece: 22206
John McDonald, single, dock labourer, inmate (although description says lodging house)
84 St James Street, Liverpool

Simone x

[dickiesam]

Hi Geir,
Simone has beaten me to it with a suggestion for young John in the 1910+1 census. He is at a lodging house at 84 St James' Street, Liverpool.

To save me and the rest of the crew backtracking to find the previous posts can you let us know which censuses you have found the 'runaway' Joshua McDonald in before 1891?

Regarding birth registration before the 1870s, your informant was partially correct. From 1837, when registration commenced, it was the responsibility of the District Registrar to 'seek out' births and register them and he was apparently paid a fee per registration. He would get his information from priests, midwives, etc. In the 1870s it became mandatory for the birth family, usually the mother, to report the birth to the Registrar.

If you knew the name of Joshua's mother there is a way you can ask the GRO to search for his birth over a 3 year span. If they don't find it your payment will be refunded. When you go to the GRO site and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the Birth Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in, even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc]. Don't enter anything else here.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents. If you aren't sure of the mother's name omit it. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they can't find a match you will get your money back.

The only child Joshua with a father Joshua in the 1871 census in the whole of England is here: RG10 - 3770 - 24 - 39. Said to be born abt 1869 and his mother is Sarah. His father's occupation is shown as 'scavenger' which was more or less a Victorian refuse and rubbish collector [aka street cleaner]. That is a far cry from basket-maker which is what is on the 1890 marriage cert. Perhaps it was wishful thinking?

[Hilary]

Re the 1901 census

Albert Terrace is in Birkenhead so Joshua and John could have remained over there.

When did Sarah and her mother go to Norway? Did Sarah marry a Norwegian?

[Bertieone]

Depending on when Sarah left for Norway, John could be this Marine,
RG14, Piece4579, 1911 census, may not have been able to go with them having signed up.

No sign of Joshua in the 1902 directory for Birkenhead, there are some Mrs McDonald's, so can't say if Sarah is one of them.

[dickiesam]

Re the 1901 census
When did Sarah and her mother go to Norway? Did Sarah marry a Norwegian?

If memory serves me correctly this is young Sarah's marriage...

Sarah A Mcdonald married Gustav A Olsen
Registration district: Liverpool, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1912; Mar qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 48

Could this be her in the census the previous year..?
@ 4 Park Terrace, Waterloo Park, Waterloo.
MCDONALD, Sarah Ann - u/m - 20 - Domestic servant & cook - Everton, Liverpool

[Hilary]

So Sarah and mum should be in the 1911 census?

[dickiesam]

So Sarah and mum should be in the 1911 census?

I have amended my prev post to include a possible sighting of dtr Sarah.

[simone]

Depending on when Sarah left for Norway, John could be this Marine,
RG14, Piece4579, 1911 census, may not have been able to go with them having signed up.

No sign of Joshua in the 1902 directory for Birkenhead, there are some Mrs McDonald's, so can't say if Sarah is one of them.

I think that one may be this one

UK, Royal Navy and Royal Marines War Graves Roll
John MacDonald
Rank: Sto 1st
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1891
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire
Branch of Service: Royal Navy
Cause of Death: Killed or died by means other than disease, accident or enemy action
Official Number Port Division: K.12682. (Ch)
Death Date: 9 Jul 1917
Ship or Unit: HMS Vanguard
Location of Grave: Not recorded
Name and Address of Cemetery:
Body Not Recovered For Burial
Relatives Notified and Address:
Mother: Alice 36, Tellard St, Kirkdale, Liverpool Lancs

[dickiesam]

Hi Simone,
Nice find but I don't think it is the John we are chasing.
From your post:

Mother: Alice 36, Tellard St, Kirkdale, Liverpool Lancs

John's mum was Sarah.

[Bertieone]

Simone is ruling out the Marine, DS,

[simone]

Yes ruling him out due to mum Alice

Thanks Bert xx

[dickiesam]

In 1910+1 there is a McDonald family with a mother Alice living at 36 Tillard Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool. Confirms the John McD on HMS Vanguard isn't our John.

[GeirGG]

Hi Geir

did Joshua have a sister Hannah? there is a baptism for Hannah 1876 to Joshua and Sarah.

Could this be John in the '11 census
RG14; Piece: 22157
John Mack Donald 20 single, boarder, 26 Wilton Street, Liverpool

or mabe
RG14; Piece: 22206
John McDonald, single, dock labourer, inmate (although description says lodging house)
84 St James Street, Liverpool

Simone x

I believe that someone mentioned that there might have been a Hannah that died young. His grandma was Hannah, so it makes sense:-)

[GeirGG]

Hi Geir,
Simone has beaten me to it with a suggestion for young John in the 1910+1 census. He is at a lodging house at 84 St James' Street, Liverpool.

To save me and the rest of the crew backtracking to find the previous posts can you let us know which censuses you have found the 'runaway' Joshua McDonald in before 1891?

Regarding birth registration before the 1870s, your informant was partially correct. From 1837, when registration commenced, it was the responsibility of the District Registrar to 'seek out' births and register them and he was apparently paid a fee per registration. He would get his information from priests, midwives, etc. In the 1870s it became mandatory for the birth family, usually the mother, to report the birth to the Registrar.

If you knew the name of Joshua's mother there is a way you can ask the GRO to search for his birth over a 3 year span. If they don't find it your payment will be refunded. When you go to the GRO site and get to the 'Certificate choice' page, after ticking the Birth Cert box there's a question at the bottom asking whether the GRO reference is known. Tick the 'No' box and just enter the year of the birth you are interested in, even if you do know the Index Reference [Qtr, Volume and Page numbers, etc]. Don't enter anything else here.

The 'Delivery address details' page comes next, and after that a new page will open allowing you to enter the names of the parents. If you aren't sure of the mother's name omit it. The GRO will do a search 1 year either side of the given year. If they can't find a match you will get your money back.

The only child Joshua with a father Joshua in the 1871 census in the whole of England is here: RG10 - 3770 - 24 - 39. Said to be born abt 1869 and his mother is Sarah. His father's occupation is shown as 'scavenger' which was more or less a Victorian refuse and rubbish collector [aka street cleaner]. That is a far cry from basket-maker which is what is on the 1890 marriage cert. Perhaps it was wishful thinking?

I have only found him in the 1871 census in Liverpool, living with his father Joshua, and his mother Sarah. His father dies in 1880, and we don't know what happens to Joshua in the 1881 census. He could as someone suggested had gone to Ireland to live with Sarah's mother and father (whom I believe to be Thomas and Bridget Bryan in Dublin or thereabouts).

Yes, I believe that you found the right one in the 1871 census.

[GeirGG]

Re the 1901 census

Albert Terrace is in Birkenhead so Joshua and John could have remained over there.

When did Sarah and her mother go to Norway? Did Sarah marry a Norwegian?

I am not sure when they went over to Norway. Dickiesam has the right wedding, so they probably went after the wedding. Don't think I have found them in the 1911 census though, so they might have just come back to marry.

[simone]

Baptism for Hannah took place at Liverpool Christ Church13 April 1876, born 2 March 1876.. address 12? Court (written as xiij), 4 House, Milton Street. Joshua listed as a labourer.

Simone x