KIRWIN/McDonough nee Lacey/LOOK UP

[MaryA]

bought certificates direct from the GRO

That or the local Register Office are by far the best value, otherwise you are paying a premium to genealogy sites - usually amounting to about double the cost.

[allanpshepherd123]

We have applied for the birth certificate of John Johnson 1870 Liverpool 8b 174 from the GRO and expect the information to arrive in the next few days.

In the meantime Gwen has been in touch with more information on the Finnan/Lacey links which has been most helpful to build on what is already available regarding her dad and the Lacey family. Lynette and I were going to open a fresh topic up specifically for Finnan/Johnson but have decided to continue to post under Gwen's "KIRWIN/McDonough nee Lacey/LOOK UP" for continuity within the Family Tree.

We understood that Lynette's mum Hilda Primrose Finnan (nee Johnson) born 19/04/1910 was the 8th of 10 children (9 girls and 1 boy) to John Jonhnson born 1870 Liverpool and Phoebe Abigail Colyer born 1873 Liverpool who married 10/08/1890. From previous contributions it has been established that the first child and daughter Sarah Ann Johnson born 1849 died about 6 months after being born. Daughter Josephine and son John were born after 1911 so we are going to look further into this.

The 1911 census for John Johnson residing at 58 Morville Street Toxteth Park Liverpool shows John aged 40 as the head, followed by wife Phoebe (spelt Phebe) 38, daughters Phoebe (spelt Phebe) 20, Mary Ellen 18, Henriette 16, Margrette 11, Lena 7, Eva 4, Hilda (spelt Hildia) 11 months and Henry Heaney aged 21. Henry later married daughter Phoebe, the relevance of this will be explained later on in the family tree. On the Johnson side of Lynette's family with the help of previous contributions it has been established that her great great grand parents were Ephraim Johnson born in Ireland 1817 and Jane Laverty also born in Ireland 1822. We have yet to establish in addition to Ephriam and Jane's son John born 1843 who was also born in Ireland other children that they had and who and where John married, whether in Ireland or Britain.

On the Colyer side of Lynette's family Phoebe's parents Henry Thomas Colyer born 21/03/1848 (St Pancras Tottenham Middlesex) married Mary Ellen Adams born Liverpool 05/04/1850 on 20/09/1870. On Henry's birth certificate (v1 p309) it gives a time of 1am, was he a twin?

I think I have established that Henry and Mary's parents were Thomas Colyer/Julia Unwin and Alexander Adams/Phoebe Roberts respectively which takes us back to the early 1800's which are Lynette's great great grand parents.

In the meantime any further information regarding Kirwin/McDonough, Finnan/Lacey and Finnan/Johnson would be greatly appreciated as before.

Best Regards
Allan

[MaryA]

On Henry's birth certificate (v1 p309) it gives a time of 1am, was he a twin?

Very possibly - do you have Ancestry access? You need to look at the index page, not just the transcriptions, just in case there was a mistake. Look down the list where you find Henry's name, take a note of the index numbers and look down the list of surnames to see if there is another matching it.

The London Metropolitan Archives are also on Ancestry so you might be lucky finding Henry's baptism, check to see if there is anybody else baptised at the same time.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Mary

I do not have access to Ancestry at the moment, in the past I have used "Find my Past" and the old "1837 on line" site. When I get a number of names/places to check out I will buy credits since you only have 30 or 90 days to use them depending how many you buy.

I am currently using Free BMD to research what I can. There appears not to be consistency within sites when searching.

Since there are a multitude of geneology sites what is actually the cheapest/best way to research family trees?

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

You do not say were you are so if you are in England

Many libraries have access to Ancestry either for free or a nominal computer charge some also have access to Find My Past.

Both companies have a 14 day free trial offer. Buying credits can cost more than buying a subscription.

The complete GRO index is not on freebmd. Althoough indexed on both FMP and Ancestry there are ommissions. You can access the index in many larger public libraries usually on microfiche.

Baptism registers are generally in the local record office for the area as are marriage registers. However you need to know the possible church otherwise you'll have a long search.

Newspapers can also be a good source. Some of these are available on the Gale site via some libraries. Many local newspapers are not indexed but are filmed and are in local libraries and record offices.

There are lots of resources out there and they're not all on the internet. Nothing beats actually holding a document that your ancestor signed 100 or 200 years ago or longer.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary

I have edited my profile to include my location. Many thanks for the extra information.

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

If you are not already a member of Lancashire Libraries you should join. They have access to Ancestry, Find my past and the Gale newspaper library.

You might also be interested in going along to the meetings of our Skelmersdale and Upholland Group (you may already do so) you can find all about them on the society's main page.

[MaryA]

Born 21 March 1848 baptised 4th May at St John the Evangelist Charlotte Street, Camden
Henry Thomas - Parents Thomas and Julia Collier 90 John Street. Occupation Sawyer
There is a note beside it "Free".

For some reason there appears to be two registers, identical in the detail given except for the additional note.



Free might refer to the fact that perhaps there was a private baptism done and this was simply entering it into the register, but there isn't a second child baptised at the same time to the same parents.

[MaryA]

Other baptised to this could appear to be
All Souls Church, St Marylebone, Westminster
Born 25 September 1850 baptised 12 January 1851
Alfred William Colyer 90 John Street, Father's occupation Sawyer

Same church
Born 5th March, 1843 Baptised 6th October 1844
Elizabeth Jesse same details for parents

St Giles in the Fields Holborn, Camden
Born 26 July, 1845 Baptised 1 February 1846
Eliza Mary parents Thomas & Julia Collier 90 John Street, Tottenham Ct Rd, occupation Sawyer

[MaryA]

The reference for Henry Thomas Colyer in Q2 1848 reads S Pancras 1 369. There is no other Colyer for the same district, I also checked Collier. It would seem unlikely that Henry was a twin, unless one died at birth and the parents didn't register it.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Mary

I have the birth certificate of Henry Thomas Colyer and the reference is v1 p369 not 309. Just thought it was twins since this is what the GRO at Smedley Hydro said it indicated.

The reason why I asked was some time ago after my dad passed away one of my daughters friends visited a medium for a reading update and asked her to come along. She ended up having a reading and it transpired that she was a vehicle to get me to go later on. I told this woman "diddly squat" and some of the stuff she spoke about just blew me away. Over the years things have unfolded in line with everything she spoke about. She asked me was there twins in the family and I told her not to my knowledge. She informed me that there will be in my lifetime.

Last year our youngest son and his wife had twin identical daughters!!!!

Best Regards
Allan

[dickiesam]

The reference for Henry Thomas Colyer in Q2 1848 reads S Pancras 1 369. There is no other Colyer for the same district, I also checked Collier. It would seem unlikely that Henry was a twin, unless one died at birth and the parents didn't register it.

There's also the possibility of a live birth and a stillbirth. Only the live birth could be registered at that time. The option for registering stillbirths didn't come in until 1926.

If there is a time against the date of birth on the birth certificate then there was more than one child born alive at the birth. If however a mother had twins, one liveborn and one stillborn, then the live born twin would not have a time against the birth.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello dickiesam

Today we received the birth certificate of John Johnson born 23/02/1870. He WAS born to Margaret Johnson the daughter of Ephraim Johnson and Jane Johnson nee Laverty. There is no named father or occupation of his father on the birth Certificate. He was born in the Liverpool workhouse which was also listed as the residence of his mother Margaret. Without the named father of John Johnson Lynette's mums "family tree" cannot be traced any further back. Very sad and poignant for my wife Lynette to hear the news.

To move on we are going to work with the information that has been given so far regarding the other children of Ephraim and Jane Johnson and research further into their lives to complete the rest of the Johnson family tree. Hopefully family members who we have so far not made contact with can provide further information since someone must know who John Johnson's father was?

As ever, thank you all very much for the information that has lead us to this moment in time.

Best Regards
Allan

[MaryA]

Thanks for the update on the cert. Allan, sorry it brings that line to an end but I'm sure there will be a lot more to be found in the Johnson line.

[dickiesam]

Hi Allan,
Thank you for the update. It is unfortunate that no named father is realistically a very solid brick wall that cannot be breached. However, hopefully we can help in a more positive way as you delve into the rest of the Johnson clan.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello to all

As a follow on from my posting Friday 17th August mentioning Suzanne E Hershey and her possible links with the Finnan family.

As a result of information from Gwen Justin I visited the American White Pages and wrote to Suzanne explaining who I am but more importantly who my wife Lynette was. Her reply was such a surprise, she is the granddaughter of my wife's father's (William Gerard Finnan) brother John Leo Finnan. Suzanne has sent Lynette photographs of herself, husband Darrell and her children in addition to photographs of her mum and dad Dennis and Ursula Finnan.

Lynette is in the process of gathering some of her memories and limited photographs to forward to Suzanne to further widen the Finnan family tree. I can see a potential visit to America on the horizon.

In the meantime I am endeavouring to further research Lynette's mums (Johnson) family tree along with my Shepherd/Grice one but the unexpected seems to continually disrupt the process.

Best Regards
Allan

[MaryA]

Well done, what a great result. Thanks for bringing us up to date and good luck with your mutual further researches.