Samuel Smith from Macclesfield was Samuel Beresford

[dawnelyndadawe]

To all of you who helped so much with my Thomas Smith from Macclesfield father Samuel smith.

It turned out he was in fact Samuel Beresford, who married an Emma Clark in 1896 in Macclesfield.
His mother Mary Ann never married his father Thomas Smith.

All the children were christened Bereford.

The most interesting part for Bert and Simone is on 1891 census Emma Clark is living with her parents and her neighbour is Emma Smith who is then married to Joseph Smith. Joseph dies and then Emma smith marries Godfrey Barnsley and moves to Ackroyd Street Stockport.

Emma is introduced to Samuel Beresford Smith via Emma Smith

Her new step daughter moves to Canada and meet Ernest Hitz, somthing happens to Emma Beresford (nhee Clark)also Smith or to Samuel Beresford/Smith and they send their thomas away to help Lizzie Ellen Barnsley out and her new nasty husband Ernest Hitz (my grandfather told us he was so cruel to him slept in a barn with water and bread)
He did not care what he put down on 1916 census form did not even give thomas Smith a title not even helper or servant.

What do you think girls now!!
thanks again for your input
Dawnexxx

[simone]

Great work Dawne you must have been burning the midnight oil

Just as you have posted this I was looking for Samuel and his family... I don't have full sub to Ancestry but when I search for each of the family names just as they are on the 1911 there is a record of departure from Liverpool to Quebec... but I can't see dates etc, so may be a red herring.... Could they all have gone together and little Thomas ended up with Ernest for some reason whilst they were over there? Maybe parents died and they got split up..

Perhaps Lizzie going over there spurred them on to take a chance on a new life.

Nice work I think you're getting somewhere still need something concrete to say it is your grandad's family though, hope it is after all your hard work.

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Lizzie went on her own in 1909 on passengers on board, and i can find her 1911 census montreal lodgings as a single girl. 1913 marriage ancestry canada to Ernest Hitz, they are next found in Alberta with Thomas Smith, dates are wrong for his arrival and year birth. But my god it is too much now to be a co incidence surely
Emma Clark who married Samuel Smith/Beresford lived next door to her o 1891 macclesfield census.

I need to see how Thomas got to Canada, but then there are so many surnames now Beresfor/clark/smith
Thomas told us his birthday 1st April 1900 justed looked up thomas Beresford correct year and qtr.
I have a headache now and need a break.

Thanks again have a look at 1891 census emma smith is next door to Emma clark,

Dawnex

[simone]

Hi Dawne.... yes I have just been looking at the birth reg's under Beresford for the children,. I saw the Thomas one Jun q 1900, Macclesfield, 8a 150..

Only thing is I found this death too with a birth date that fits the birth reg


Thomas Beresford
Birth Date: 9 Mar 1900
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1978
Age at Death: 78
Macclesfield Cheshire
Volume: 35
Page: 0801

can't be same one surely..


Suppose you could try the birth specifying parents names would be brill if the date was 1/4/1900 wouldn't it.

Like you say it all fits so well

let us know what happens next

[dawnelyndadawe]

that is not good but a great journey, and if that is the case didn't it all fit well.
But life is never perfect.

There is a Samuel Beresford marrying in 1913 in stockport also maybe Emma died and he gave the kids up
But the death is not good.

thanks again

[simone]

Just rewinding a bit Dawne to the previous thread

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... =2&t=12391


and more sepecifically

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... ren/cs.htm

I see there is a Catherine on there b 1902, went over 1910 like Thomas you have claimed.. have we anything more on her? She has been claimed
I see there is Catherine listed in the Board of Guardians on
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/
from W Derby Union....
although she may be Catherine who went in 1913 age 13... not sure how it works, if these records are supposed to match up

still can't believe all that matches up so right could still be wrong although we've seen it before I suppose

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Just rewinding a bit Dawne to the previous thread

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... =2&t=12391


and more sepecifically

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... ren/cs.htm

I see there is a Catherine on there b 1902, went over 1910 like Thomas you have claimed.. have we anything more on her? She has been claimed
I see there is Catherine listed in the Board of Guardians on
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/
from W Derby Union....
although she may be Catherine who went in 1913 age 13... not sure how it works, if these records are supposed to match up

still can't believe all that matches up so right could still be wrong although we've seen it before I suppose

Simone x

Hiya Simone,

As my son in law would say (irish) it was fitting together like a sock on a turkeys head!!!

They split the kids up for sure
There is a classic example two sister Marion Lord from Liverpool went 1910 and the other i think her name was Catherine went 1912 to different addresses in Canada. Never saw each other again, the other did not know her sister was in the same country. Now that has to be wrong.
They died never knowing.
So Thomas and Catherine/Katherine/Kathleen/kate got split up from the family she being the younger so we think.
Thomas went to Canada, Montreal first and then on to Alberta. When he was 18 or had paid his dues to the farmer he split and when as quick as the wind. Went lubberjacking and then eventually pier head jump on a ship back to England, the rest is our family history.l

He always wondered what happened to his little sister, he thought she might have gone onto USA but i cannot find anything.
I ordered that certificate for that Catherine 1912 from Canadian library as she had been taken into West Derby Union, but very little is on it, just her name and West Derby Union and the date nothing more.

Thomas was not in Canada in Montreal on 1911 census he sailed later so he is somewhere on our 1911 census.

There is a Thomas and Catherine at Widnes, with a family of Farrells (yarrells mispelt on census) it is not them.
But that is another good story. Catherine Smith remarried a John Farrell she died 1912 drowned in Widnes canal and John went off to WW1 and dies 1912 and i thought yes this is my thomas and Catherine but there is a member on Ancentry.co.uk who WIDNES23 who claims the whole family the Smith and Farrell children stayed together in Widnes.

I hve a feeling Thomas mum could have been a Catherine, he was insistant that my mum middle name was Catherine/Katherine/Kathleen.

So disappointed but onwards and upwards. Thanks a million.

[simone]

Blimey Dawne.. by the time you've finished you'll know the story of all the waifs and strays of other families if not your own... perhaps you should write a book...

Do hope you get something concrete soon...

Simone xx

[simone]

Hi Dawne

Have (I bet you have) you had a look at
Thomas Smith b 1900, Salford, who is in Culcheth Cottage Homes age 11 , at Newchurch, Warrington
RG14; Piece: 23208

There is also William Smith, b Mossley age 11, and Victoria Smith age 4, b Salford.

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Hi Dawne

Have (I bet you have) you had a look at
Thomas Smith b 1900, Salford, who is in Culcheth Cottage Homes age 11 , at Newchurch, Warrington
RG14; Piece: 23208

There is also William Smith, b Mossley age 11, and Victoria Smith age 4, b Salford.

Simone x

Hiya no i have not looked at this one.
I do not know where the districts in Liverpool are.
I live in Bristol UK when i am back in England, and i always say i come from Bristol.
When in fact i lived 15 miles outside of the city at Winterbourne Down.

So this is what i am up against, when Thomas said he came from Liverpool is it in the smaller towns surrounding Liverpool what do you call Liverpool the centre or all of the districts skirting the main town.
And also Birkenhead i believe they think they are from Liverpool.
You tell me.

But yet again your help is so much appreciated.
Lets look at thi s children home

Ta

[simone]

I say I am from Liverpool, although I live 9 miles out I was certainly born in Liverpool, in Toxteth, but have never lived in the City of Liverpool. Firstly I lived at Halewood and now in Knowsley. I think the majority of people who came from different parts Liverpool, e.g West Derby, Halewood, Kirkby, Bootle etc may say they were from Liverpool, especially if were away from home ...many will have been born in Liverpool and moved out.

http://www.liverpool-map.com/liverpool-districts

I think most people from over the river would probably say they came from the Wirral.. many people came from the Wirral to marry in Liverpool in 19th century.

when Thomas said he came from Liverpool is it in the smaller towns surrounding Liverpool what do you call Liverpool the centre or all of the districts skirting the main town

he could well have come from one of the districts of Liverpool.


Salford however is different all together, being a Manchester district. There is a Mossley Hill in Liverpool and one in Manchester too. I think the William listed on the census is most likely the Manchester one


it's a pickle isn't it... lets hope the info from the 1939 NHS gives a clue

Simone x

[dawnelyndadawe]

Thomas Smith from Salford at Culceth Cottage homes 1911 dob 1901

Checking all the Salford families on 1901 they are all there except this lot

Father's Name:
Thomas Smith 1861 Sandhurst Glos
Mother's Name:
Elizabeth Smith 1863 Manchester

Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil parish
Ecclesiastical parish:

Salford Stowell Memorial
Harry Smith

Sidney Smith 1889

Ethel Smith1892

Ernest Smith1895

Thomas A Smith1899

Can anyone else find them together on 1911

Thanks

[simone]

can't see them together number of possibilities for children not together

Simone x