Ella Tweedie nee Hughes

[Laurence Roberts]

Hi I wonder if anyone c an help me ? I am trying to find the birthdate of my Grannie (my mum's mum). I've been trying on-line with no success. I believe she was born in Belfast, maybe Excise Street, near the Black Water, which has since been knocked down.

She was born in Belfast and I have a Bible from Grosvenor Road Mission, Belfast, presented to her in 1925. So she may have been junior age then, or early teens perhaps. It is inscribed to "Ellie Hughes".

She lived most of her adult life from just before World war 2 in Liverpool, & in final years in Pelham Grove, off Lark Lane, Aigburth, and died in Smithdown Road Hospital on 27.12.1977.

I hope I've worded this ok and this is enough information.

many thanks for any help or advice anyone may be able to give,

Laurence

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Whoever registered the death in Q4 1977 Liverpool Merseyside 36 0289 gave her age as 69, her birthdate as 28 October 1908.

If you wish to order the death certificate to see the cause and who registered the death you can do so using the reference I gave above, online at www.gro.gov.uk.

[dickiesam]

Hello Laurence and welcome to the forum.
This is the registration for Ellen's death.

Death: TWEEDIE, Ellen
Registration district: Liverpool, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1977; Dec qtr
Date of Birth: 28 October 1908
Volume no: 36; Page no: 0289

It clearly gives her birth date and if she was born in Ireland her birth will be recorded in the Irtish GRO Index and she should be in the Irish 1911 Census.

The absence of her marriage to Mr ? Tweedie in the England GRO leads me to believe she married in Northern Ireland after 1922 when partition was enacted. So her marriage will be with the Belfast Records Office [aka PRONI] and not online.

[MaryA]

The absence of her marriage to Mr ? Hughes in the England GRO

Mr Tweedie perhaps? although it is still absent

[dickiesam]

From the address you gave I think this could be Ellen in 1911..

Residents of a house - 46 Excise Street (St. Anne's Ward, Belfast, Antrim)
Hughes, James - 35 - Head - C of Ireland - bn Belfast - Labourer.
Hughes, Ellen - 28 - Wife - C of Ireland - bn Belfast - Winder
Hughes, Charlotte - 8 - Dtr - C of Ireland - bn Belfast - Scholar
Hughes, James - 6 - Son - C of Ireland - bn Belfast - Scholar
Hughes, David - 4 - Son - C of Ireland - bn Belfast - Scholar
Hughes, Ellen - 3 - Dtr - C of Ireland - bn Belfast.

[dickiesam]

The absence of her marriage to Mr ? Hughes in the England GRO

Mr Tweedie perhaps? although it is still absent

Tut Tut Tut... Silly boy! Post duly amended!

[dickiesam]

Perhaps children were born in Northern Ireland but there is this one birth in Lancashire that may be connected.

Birth: TWEEDIE, David
Registration district: Liverpool North, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1941; Mar qtr
Mother's maiden name: Hughes
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 988.

This would appear to be Ellen's birth registration...
Birth: Ellen Hughes
registration district: Belfast
registration quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1908
volume number: 1; page number: 303

A copy of her birth cert could be obtained from the Irish GRO. http://www.groireland.ie/ Costs 6 Euro for a photocopy of the entry. It is exactly the same as a certified copy but costs 40% less.

[Laurence Roberts]

THANK youse all ! This is marvellous and so quick.

I feel moved.

(How do you do it ?). Yes, Grannie married William ("Bill") Tweedie. And it would have been in Belfast, and was before the war. Grannie and Grandad sailed to Liverpool hoping for work.

It was so good seeing the message with "Excise Street" in one message. I don t know how to reply to each message individually, so am replying like this -hope ok.

Leaves me wanting to know more about Grannie and her family -- when younger one does nt know what to ask and later - much later when middled aged almost everyone has died !

For instance we always called Gran's mother "great grannie Hughes"! so I have no idea of her Christian name and she was a widow already, when we used to visit her, in the early 1960s.

[Laurence Roberts]

Thanks so much MaryA for your welcome and for that information - so good to see it.

[Laurence Roberts]

dickiesam many thanks for your welcome and for listing all the residents of that wee house in Excise Street- I'm made up. It is so moving to see Great Grannie and Grandad and their children like that with ages and every thing.

Also for Uncle David's birth. He is indeed one of Granny's children ! He emigrated to Canada years ago; but died there in last few years. He married a Canadian woman called Diane.

Her other children with Bill Tweedie are : Eliza Jane ("Jean) my Mum, married to Arthur Roberts,
James Tweedie, Hugh Tweedie.

James married Dinah (Diane).Diane still lives in London. Hugh is married to Irene and lives in Wales !

A very big thank you, and good to see you live in Ireland.

Laurence

[dickiesam]

Hi Laurence,
All I can say is 'You are indeed welcome'!

This is Granny Ellen's sister Charlotte from https://www.familysearch.org/
Birth: Charlotte Hughes
registration district: Belfast
event type: BIRTHS
registration quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1903
volume number: 1; page number: 368

If you got Ellen's birth cert we would know her mother's maiden name and would be able to find her marriage to Ellen's father, James.

There are 6 James Hughes marriages in Belfast between 1901 and 1903 but unfortunately the respective spouses are not online yet. So we have to search the 'long way round' by matching the Marriage Index references with those of Ellen ?, and need his bride's surname to do that. The 1911 census includes the information that Ellen and James had been married 8 years, which suggests 1902 to 1903. There's only one in 1903 and that is after the birth of Charlotte! If you need help ordering a birth cert let us know.

EDIT TO ADD: In order to find the date of the Hughes/Tweedie marriage it would be a help if you listed the birth years of the children born in Belfast. That would narrow the time-span considerably. It might for instance have been shortly after 1925 when the Mission presented Ellen with the bible.

[dickiesam]

Would this be Granny Ellens' husband?

Death: TWEEDIE, William John
Registration district: Liverpool, Lancashire
Year of registration: 1989; Month of June
Date of Birth: 31 December 1910
Volume no: 36; Page no: 654; Reg no: 689

His full name will help the marriage search at PRONI, which can't be done online.

[Laurence Roberts]

Thank you for Aunt Charlotte inlast post. She married James Geddis and they lived and then died very old in Coventry. We called him Uncle Jamesie.

Also in my old address book from my teens onwards, I have a Mrs C Geddis of 31 Combermere Street, Donnegal Road, Belfast 12. Next to it I have written 'RIP 1977' but I am sure who this is now

It's marvellous you have found how long they were married in 1911 due to the Census.

It sounds like it would help a lot for me to obtain the marriage lines of James Hughes and Ellen, which you mentioned. Would I need to write to an office in Belfast for that do you reckon ?

[Laurence Roberts]

ah cross posted ! Just seen your message about William John. I think he must be my Grandad. I think his funeral was in the June; and I remember it was at St John's, Tuebrook, Liverpool.

He was divorced from my Grannie (Ellen, but called "Ella" by friends)) and married to Edie (Edith?), many years ago,( nee or previously -I think- Gagen (not sure if correctly spelt). They had child Lilly.

Is n't it interesting that he is the first so far to be listed with two Christian names ? I wondered if one only was a feature of this family or of Belfast at that time.

[dickiesam]

It's marvellous you have found how long they were married in 1911 due to the Census.

It sounds like it would help a lot for me to obtain the marriage lines of James Hughes and Ellen, which you mentioned. Would I need to write to an office in Belfast for that do you reckon ?

You need to get a birth cert first to establish Ellen's [or Charlotte's] mother's maiden name. Those records will be in the Irish GRO in Roscommon, Ireland, and that is where the marriage of their parents will be.

This is how to obtain a copy... There are now 2 ways of doing it.
At present you cannot order and pay online at the Irish GRO site.. http://www.groireland.ie/
You must download the relevant application form and either complete it on screen or after printing it, using the data I have posted [Volume #, Page # etc]. You can then either fax or post it back to the GRO. Takes about 7 days if you can fax it or up to 14 days by post. Specify a photocopy version which costs only 6 Euro [abt £4.50]. It is exactly the same as the certified copy costing 2x as much but has no legal standing. Ideal for family research. If you can't fax from your PC there is probably a friendly fax nearby but don't forget to take the fax number with you!.

However, you can order and pay online for certified BMDs which cost 10 Euro each [abt £7.90] plus a small charge for postage at the Health Service Executive [aka the HSE] site http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_S ... icates_ie/
But, you must know the mother's maiden name to use this service so its usefulness is limited.

Each certificate costs €8, with a fee of €2 for searching. There is an additional fee of €1 for postage to addresses in the Republic of Ireland and United Kingdom and €2 for postage elsewhere.

When you have the birth cert and maiden name post that info here and we'll try and find the marriage.

Note: BMD records after 1922 for Northern Ireland are held at PRONI, the Northern Record Office in Belfast. http://www.proni.gov.uk/

[Laurence Roberts]

Thanks for going to so much trouble.

oops ! - I meant Birth cert !

I'll try and order them at same time if I can. Very useful.

Thanks for offering to to look it up when I have the certs.

[dickiesam]

Thanks for going to so much trouble.

oops ! - I meant Birth cert !

I'll try and order them at same time if I can. Very useful.

Thanks for offering to to look it up when I have the certs.

Hi,
So you don't waste your time, the HSE [Health Service Executive] website can only be used if you know the mother's maiden name. I have just been on the site and discovered the maiden name is a mandatory requirement. I have amended my post to that effect. So it's the GRO site I'm afraid but they are pretty quick at sending out certs. I have done it several times using fax to speed up the process.

[Laurence Roberts]

Thank you very much.

Really appreciated,
Laurence

[Blue70]

Here's a couple of images for the 1911 Census records that DS found:-

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001526185/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 001526092/


Blue

[Laurence Roberts]

Thank you very much Blue. These are very good to read. As well as all the information, so evocative of those times.

Much appreciated