john evans

[john finnegan]

Still looking for the birth of john evans blacksmith bn 1837, married amelia tull 8/1/1857 st michaels liverpool. john,s father john sawyer bn 1805, john,s mother ann.
Sent for birth certificate, got reply no john evans from september 1837 to 1840, must be in the earlier quarters. If any one could look at the RO for him if they are going. Could a census search 1841 1851 be done for any of his siblings?, then I could send for their birth certificate. Is there any other way to progress.

[Bertieone]

Hi John,

Is this the family?

1851 census,
2 Finch Street, Islington, Liverpool
John Evans, head, 47, Sawyer, Cheshire, Chester.
Ann, wife, 46, Cheshire, Chester,
Sarah, daughter, 19, Liverpool.
John, son, 14, Liverpool.
Ann, daughter, 9, Liverpool.

HO107, Piece2184, Folio250, Page18.


Bert

[MaryA]

Quick couple of questions -

Is St Michaels in the City the one in Upper Pitt Street - important mainly because of the C of E religion as there is another St Michaels (West Derby Road) which is RC but we know it's not that one.

I found another marriage coincidentally, think it's for his sister, if it is correct it is only important because of the change of occupation of the father.

5th April, 1869 St Simons
Joseph Agnew Tull Full age Bachelor Servant St Simons (this is given as the address)
Father Joseph Tull Cooper
Ann Evans Full Age Spinster St Simons
Father John Evans Publican
Both signed their names
Witnesses William Forsyth and Margaret Moss

[MaryA]

If any one could look at the RO for him if they are going.

If it is a baptism you are wanting, then I think you will need to narrow down the likely church and definitely the religion. Unfortunately the majority of those baptisms that give the mother's maiden name are RC.

[dickiesam]

This looks like the family in 1841. All born Lancashire, allegedly! And they live in the same street as the 1851 family Bertieone posted.
EVANS, John - 36 - Sawyer - 1805
EVANS, Ann - 35 - 1806
EVANS, John - 11 - 1830
EVANS, Helen - 6 - 1835
EVANS, Sarah - 9 - 1832
Address: Finch Street, Liverpool.
HO107 - Piece: 558 - Book/Folio: 3/23 - Page: 38

Young John's age could be read as 4 on the summary page.

[john finnegan]

Many thanks,
Bert, this is the family in Finch St, Mary, Joseph Agnew Tull is correct, I have a lot of his details on a previous posting, Joseph married a Jane Hull, then Ann Mcgoey who committed bigamy, then Mary Ann Read formerly Laurence. It looks that john Evans has changed his occupation again. The church will be Upper Pitt Street and they were C of E. What I need now is the details of Ann Evans birth in 1842 so I can apply for the birth certificate, and finally find out her mothers maiden name. Do you have any marriage details of Ann Mcgoey married 1860, and Mary Ann Read married 1869 so I can apply for the marriage certificates. Was St Simon a street or place ? Dickiesam John would have been 4 as he was 5 years after Sarah.
Thanks John.

[Bertieone]

Hi John,

23rd, January, 1860, St Nicholas, Liverpool,
Joseph Agnew Tull, Minor, Bachelor, Soldier, address, Spitfields, Father, Joseph Tull, Cooper.

Ann Mcgoey, Minor, Spinster, address, Shaw hill, Father, John Mcgoey, Cartround.

Witnesses, John Sharp, Elizabeth McLennon.

GRO, 1860, March Qtr, Liverpool, 8b 248.


Bert

[Bertieone]

John,

Is it possible I've misunderstood your posting?

Joseph Tull/Jane Hull, is not the Joseph Agnew Tull that married Ann Mcgoey, details above,

1869 was the marriage with Ann Evans, as Mary posted above,

Mary Ann Read 1869 marriage?


Bert

[MaryA]

Seems to me Joseph Agnew Tull has claimed to be a bachelor twice over at least.

[john finnegan]

Hi Bert,
I was given the details on a previous posting by a member, From IGI, Joseph tull married Jane Hull (widow) 18 march 1833 Cristchurch, Hunter Street, Liverpool, witnes kn???? and Ann Phillips.
Do you have any birth details on John Evans born 1842 for birth certificate?
many thanks John

[MaryA]

The marriage quoted above is only from the Parish Register - I believe the other witness is Thomas Knowles but without the GRO Certificate there is no confirmation that the father's name is correct, half proof only with the occupation and no address.

Do you have any birth details on John Evans born 1842 for birth certificate?
many thanks John

Am I confused about this, which John Evans? the only mention of 1842 above is for an Ann. I will happily check for a baptism but which parents names for this John and any other identification, address? Evans being a common name.

Birth certificates are not available either online or from the Record Office, only by applying to the Liverpool Register Office or the GRO.

Just a thought, I think you should be checking censuses etc. to see if there are two Joseph Tulls - is there a Joseph AND a Joseph Agnew? otherwise it seems strange that there are also differing occupations involved in this search.

[Bertieone]

Hi Bert,
I was given the details on a previous posting by a member, From IGI, Joseph tull married Jane Hull (widow) 18 march 1833 Cristchurch, Hunter Street, Liverpool, witnes kn???? and Ann Phillips.
Do you have any birth details on John Evans born 1842 for birth certificate?
many thanks John

Hi John,

I cant find anything that may lead to the discovery of Ann Evans, 1806, maiden name, only hope others can.

Joseph Tull did indeed marry Jane Hull, as posted above by Mary, Joseph and Jane are possibly the parents of Joseph Agnew Tull but not conclusive.
Referring back to your previous post, Joseph Agnew married Ann Mcgoey and Ann Evans and declares himself a bachelor on both occasions, he is more likely to be the bigamist.
If you haven't got access to Ancestry, PM me your email and I'll send you the images if you wish.


Bert

[john finnegan]

Hi Mary and Bert,
The following details are a reply from a previous posting.

Jan 1860 Joseph Agnew Tull marries Ann McGoey St Nics, after they were married Joseph goes of to Aldershot as he is a Private in the 21st Fusiliers..
He sends money home to Ann..dont know how long he is away but in Jan 1861 Ann commits bigamy and marries a John O'Toole .

When Joseph comes home and finds out he has her apprehended John O'Toole does a runner Ann was Remanded...

Mistake name was Ann Evans 1942 not John
Many thanks john

[Bertieone]

Thanks John,

Joseph was stationed at Dover castle, Kent with the 21st, 1861 census,

J Tull, bn Manchester,
Rg 9, Piece 546, Folio 94, Page 8.

Following censuses available, if you need the info.

His marriage must have been Annulled for him to legally declare himself a bachelor when marring Ann Evans.


Bert

[MaryA]

His marriage must have been Annulled for him to legally declare himself a bachelor when marring Ann Evans.

We have certificates to show that this is not always the case, either a lie has been accepted, or even an incorrect status written accidentally. Don't always accept what you see on certificates, always question whether they could be accurate or misleading.

[Bertieone]

I know we can't always accept what has been recorded on official documents as correct,
I wonder if any records exist for annulled marriages? If Joseph's marriage to Ann Mcgoey had been annulled,
Would/Should the marriage between Ann Mcgoey/John OToole be allowed to stand and be recorded in the GRO records?
If she was remanded and I assume faced some form of punishment, shouldn't her marriage record to John be struck off?



Bert

[MaryA]

Perhaps you should try checking the local newspapers to see if there is any mention.

[erika]

In the Liverpool Mercury dated Tuesday 20 Jan 1863 there is a mention of her bigamy.

Also in the Lancaster Gazette Sat 28 March 1863

South Lancs Assizes Crown Court

Ann Tull pleaded guilty to a charge of bigamy, but His Lordship after hearing a few words of her case thought her punishment had already been sufficient and she was discharged, the prisoner's confinement seemed imminent.

Having trouble with my photo bucket at the moment and can't post the images of them

[Bertieone]

Thanks Erika,

I'm sure John will be interested in seeing the images, as will I.



Bert

[MaryA]

Good finds Erika
SOUTH LANCASHIRE ASSIZES CROWN COURT, WEDNESDAY .
The Lancaster Gazette, and General Advertiser for Lancashire, Westmorland, Yorkshire, &c. (Lancaster, England), Saturday, March 28, 1863; pg. 8; Issue 3965


POLICE INTELLIGENCE .
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Tuesday, January 20, 1863; Issue 4663