Ditton Schools 1890 - 1910

[MaryA]

if you discover that Harriet actually came from County Wexford I'll put the kettle on!

He's always just so welcoming mind you a pint is more his style

You will be welcome at whichever of the group meetings you will be nearest to, especially Liverpool on the second Tuesday of each month.

[Cupcake]

Had a lovely trip despite some inclement weather at the end. Thanks to my cousin Hazel in Ditton and friend Linda also in Ditton, saw everything I wanted to see -- St. Michael's, the school, Farnworth/St. Lukes, Hammer & Pincers, 245 Ditchfield, Holly Banks Farm and Spring Farm. Took five days in Wales to continue my research on Harriet. I did not find anytning in the archives and the Town Clerk in Ruthin said there are no records for Harriet born abt 1859 connected to a father William (a farmer) in Northern Wales.

On the other hand, I attended the monthly meeting of the Ditton group. I was very happy to meet Chris and Sue and a few others. Chris, his usual generous self, had a lovely print of the painting of the school for me as well as a copy of Ann Martindale's book, "A Backward Glance." The book is a good counter-point to the Nolan's story about Widnes during the chemical days. It also confirms what my Aunt Margaret said about that time -- she was young, her mother was a very creative and resourceful cook and they had lots of cakes (having saved their sugar ration) and didn't listen too much to the radio. As a teenager, she was more focused on doing things with her family and friends.

Getting back to Harriet, Sue had some interesting news about her first-born child, Eleanor. There was a mystery there with Eleanor being born in 1877 and John and Harriet married in 1879. The records confirmed that. Sue found Eleanor's baptismal record listing Eleanor Hughes as the child of Harriet Hughes, a single woman. (Research tip -- consider the surname of the mother.) Furthermore, Eleanor went to live with the George Houghton family in Warrington Road in Hale. In the 1891 census, George was a gardener. His wife was Ann and children, Isaac, Hartley and "Ellen." By 1901, Eleanor was married and living with her husband, Tom Murray. She is also listed in 1881 with this family and if anyone can send me the 1881 and 1891 census for this family, it would be appreciated as my ancestry subscription has lapsed.

I don't know who the Houghton family is nor their relationship with Harriet. They are not from Wales. George is listed as a gardener and I hope to find out where he did his work from the census. Perhaps Harriet worked where George was the gardener.

The new mystery is who is the father of Eleanor? Why did the Houghton family take in Eleanor? If Harriet and John Radley did not marry until 2 years after Eleanor's birth, is John Radley the father? Is the father George Houghton?

It really is a benefit to go to the area you are researching. In my case, I was so confused by all the unfamiliar names of places (esp. in Wales) and the changing of place names as well. Clearly my trip was a success in many ways and a pleasure to visit England and Wales.

Your American Cousin, Bets

[dickiesam]

Hello Bets, welcome back.
Glad you had a good trip even if you didn't get to the bottom of the Harriet Hughes mystery.

You asked about the Haughton family in 1881:

HAUGHTON, George - Head - Married - 39 - Yard Lab - Cronton, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Ann - Wife - 41 - Yard labourer's wife - Prescot, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Amy - Dtr - u/m - 18 - No Occ - Rochdale, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Thomas - Son - 16 - Gen Lab - Arner Bolton, Lancashire.
HAUGHTON, Walter - Son - 11 - Scholar - Crow Wood, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Isaac - Son - 9 - Scholar - Widnes, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Hartley - Son - 6 - Scholar - Upton, Lancashire
HUGHES, Eleanor - Boarder - 3 - Ditton, Lancashire
Address: White Lodge, Hale Lane, Ditton, Lancashire
RG11 - Piece: 3723 - Folio: 61 - Page: 38

Note: On the census summary page Eleanor Hugh's name has been written over what appears to the Latin form... Hellinis Huse [I think!]. If that is correct there would appear to be a Church influence here, perhaps an order of nuns who placed the child with the Haughton family?

The Haughtons in 1891:
HAUGHTON, George - Head - Married - 48 - Gardener - Cronton, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Ann - Wife - 49 - Earthenware dealer - Rainhill, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Isaac - Son - u/m - 19 - Earthenware assistant - Widnes, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Hartley - Son - 16 - Gardener's assistant - Upton, Lancashire
HAUGHTON, Ellen - Dtr - 13 - Scholar - Ditton, Lancashire
Address: Warrington Road, Halewood, Lancashire.
RG12 - Piece: 3007 - Folio: 32 - Page: 26

The fact that Ellen/Eleanor is twice shown as being from Ditton would suggest to me that she was possibly born in the area at a 'mother and baby' facility run by nuns, and the Haughton family knew no more than that. Formal adoptions did not exist then but 'placements' in the form of 'taking in' and 'nurse child' did.

[Cupcake]

It's interesting that Harriet became a midwife (I don't think I mentioned my cousin has the certificate). Nevertheless, Eleanor was recognized as a Radley and is recorded on the family tree as dictated by her nephew to my aunt. My cousin living in Ditton was unaware of Eleanor being anything but a Radley. Nice to see that Eleanor was still in school at 13. We may never know the father.

Thank you for sending the census so quickly and your thoughts on how she ended up with the Houghtons. Is your explanation a conclusion from your experience and education?

[dickiesam]

We may never know the father.
Thank you for sending the census so quickly and your thoughts on how she ended up with the Houghtons. Is your explanation a conclusion from your experience and education?

The short answer to your question is a definite yes. Mind you, my education didn't finish when I left school all those years ago!

I know that up to relatively recently a pregnant unmarried young woman could voluntarily [or be forced to do so by her family] enter a 'mother and child' facility run by a religious order of nuns or in some cases 'private enterprise'. She would have the child and within days never see that child again. There is evidence to suggest that before formal adoptions became legal in 1928 religious orders and the like running these 'institutions' had waiting lists of couples willing to pay to informally adopt a child when they could not 'produce' a child of their own.

In other cases, babies would be removed from their mothers and placed with local families as a 'nurse-child' or be 'taken in' and the family would receive a small regular payment from the local authority for so doing. The mother would probably never know what happened to her child.

In Ireland the recent Magdaline Laundries scandal has uncovered a very un-Christian ethic in religious communities in regard to unmarried mothers. http://www.abandonedireland.com/mc.html

PS: My mother said she found me in the cabbage patch! I was lucky!

[MaryA]

So pleased you had such a successful trip Bets and it sounds that you had a great welcome in Ditton, especially with the results they had ready for you.

[Cupcake]

Thank you Mary and thank you DickieSam for the further education on "illegitimate" (we could do without that word) children.

Silly me. I will order Eleanor's birth certificate and see what comes up. The baptismal record indicates Harriet as "single woman", but the birth certificate might say something else especially since the FreeBMD birth index has her listed as Eleanor Radley.

The US just got the series Midwife and that's another eye-opener/reminder of what times used to be like.

Have a great week all. I am back to work today and I'm sure to be swamped as they don't do it the way they used to by having someone cover your work while away.

Bets

[Cupcake]

Note: On the census summary page Eleanor Hugh's name has been written over what appears to the Latin form... Hellinis Huse [I think!]. If that is correct there would appear to be a Church influence here, perhaps an order of nuns who placed the child with the Haughton family?


DickieSam -- Would there be any additional information on Hellinis Huse on the summary page. You probably would have included that if there was, but just checking. I'm going to spend a little time following this trail with the thought that Harriet herself may have been in an orphanage.

[Hilary]

If you send for Eleanor's birth certificate it will tell you where she was born. The baptism entry presumably has her birth date and you know her mother so armed with that information you could apply for her birth certificate even if you don't have the actual GRO reference for her.

I reckon whoever filled in the originally census form spelt Eleanor Hughes as it sounded Helena Huse. The enumerator copied it on to the official sheet and thought just a minute that should be Eleanor Hughes!!

The Eleanor Radley registered in prescot in 1877 appears to die in 1878.

[dickiesam]

DickieSam -- Would there be any additional information on Hellinis Huse on the summary page. You probably would have included that if there was, but just checking. I'm going to spend a little time following this trail with the thought that Harriet herself may have been in an orphanage.

Sorry, the only info is as I posted.

[Hilary]

Do you have Eleanor's birth certificate?

[Cupcake]

Hellenis Huse = Eleanor Hughes. Thank you for all the working brains in this group. I just didn't see that.

I have ordered the birth certificate for Eleanor from the GRO and anticipate receiving it by end of month. Will let you know if there's additional information that helps to clarify this mystery.

Thanks again for your help!

Bets

[MaryA]

The handwriting makes it even more likely, reads Helliner to me, say that aloud and it's a perfect example of somebody illiterate making a brave attempt.

[ceratonia]

Interesting thread this. got here by using google to look for info on the Houghton/Haughton family in Cronton & Ditton. Although the people I'm looking for are a century earlier, the name Isaac seems to crop up in every generation. Reading the thread, and just remembered that I used to play with kids from a family called Houghton who had a smallholding in Halebank, in the 1970s.

You might find it worthwhile to look through the collection of the Catalyst museum's collection to see if there is any mention of John Radley. There were a number of copper works in Ditton in the mid nineteenth century. It gives an interesting picture of the terrible working & living conditions for workers at the time.

http://www.catalyst.org.uk/collection/collection.htm

The large-scale migration from North Wales to Liverpool at that time means there were at least a couple of welsh churches in Widnes at that time, too.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum, lovely of you to jump straight in with help. Bets has become a regular poster and I'm sure she will be along shortly, when her timezone allows, to see your response.

[Cupcake]

Thanks for the link, Ceratonia. When I was in Ditton last week, I stopped at the Catalyst, but found most of it is dedicated to science for young people with a small section on the chemical industries history. I will take a look and see if there is any mention of John, but he was one of many laborers. When visiting I also saw the site of the Weslyan Church, but it is no longer there having been replaced by a child care center if I remember correctly. Things moving and changing have been (esp. place names) has been challenging, but the visit has helped.

Could you tell me the address of the Houghtons in Halebank or the street/road? The census indicates they lived on Warrington Road, in Halewood but I don't find that road in contemporary Halewood.

Cheers, Bets

[ceratonia]

There's a map of Halewood around this time here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~m.royden/mrl ... etwork.htm

Warrington Road would logically be the road to Warrington, but you'd expect that as it had to pass through ditton/widnes on the way, it would be called something else?

[Cupcake]

Thanks for sending the link. Still no sign of Warrington Road in Halewood. Nor a White Lodge on Hale Lane. The census taker may have been making it up as he went along.

[Cupcake]

Birth Certificate for Eleanor Hughes

The GRO has no birth certificate for Eleanor Hughes born 1877 in Ditton. There is a listing on Free BMD for Eleanor Radley born in 1877 in Prescott. I should have ordered that at the same time, but was too focused on Eleanor being a Hughes. I have now ordered that cert and will have it by mid-November. Of course, there are many Radleys in the Lancashire area and it may not be Eleanor with a mother Harriet Hughes. We will see.

I am still working on the mystery of Harriet and those years between the age of 6 when she left Wales to the age of 16 when she became pregnant with Eleanor. Of course, being from Wales could be a lie to cover up another mystery, but there are still clues to parse. Here is my next lead:

The Houghtons lived in White Lodge. I have been told White Lodge was next to Nazareth House (formerly called Ditton Hall). However, in 1877 the Jesuits were still occupying Ditton Hall before it was renamed Nazareth house in 1903 so I don't think writing to the Sisters at Nazareth House in London where the records are kept will be of any help. Is there a connection between the Houghtons and Ditton Hall? Does Harriet have a connection with the Houghtons or with Ditton Hall? Will it be useful to write to St. Michael's RC and ask them to look in their records for an answer to these questions?

If you have any suggestions, let me know. I am obviously willing to take a peak down any path.

Bets