John Perry?Parry?

[kwr]

I've had to abandon family history for some months but I'm trying to fit it in again. Help!

My g.g.grandfather who married at least four times, is exercising my brain especially as regards his parents.....

He marries Anne Simmons May 16th 1857 at St. Albans Church, parish of Bevington. Witnesses are Catherine Hunaeus and Samuel Barber. I can trace him thereafter through another two wives up to and including 1901. After that I'm a bit lost – far too many James Parry/Perry die before the next census is taken in 1911.

His marriage certificate has him as James Perry boilermaker, son of John Perry mariner.
Before this he is, I believe, here:-

1851 Census Ho107/1992/439/14
Parish: Shrewsbury, St. Alkmund Re. Dist. Shrewsbury Sub- distr.-St. Mary
Enum. dis. 4B Schedule no. 43

James Perry Lodger Unm 22 Boilermaker Lancashire.

This, I am presuming, is how and where he met his second wife. So far so good.

The best candidates for HIS parents seem to be the following:-
1841 Census ref. HO107/557/17. Folio is 18 and page no. is 27
Borough and township: Liverpool
Address: Thornton

John Parry 50 Mariner Y
Elizabeth " 40 Y
Catherine 15 Y
James 10 Y
Mary 6 Y
William 4 Y

But obviously the name here is Parry. I wonder if these are his parents - the occupation fits – dodgy but possible. In 1851 the father may be dead. I searched the 1851 census - no John Parry but.....
H0107/2179/452/42 has
Elizabeth Perry aged 55, a widow, visiting, independent, born in Liverpool. This may be her?

In the 1861 census:-
RG9/1871/75/9
Parish: St. Julians Borough: Shrewsbury Ward: Stone Ward Without Ecc. District: Holy Trinity Town: Shrewsbury Schedule no. 56 Address:- Coleham

James Perry H M 30 Boiler Maker Liverpool
Anne W M 28 St. Mary, Shrewsbury, Salop
William S 3 Shrewsbury
Catherine D 1 "
Elizabeth Perry Mother Wid 66 Lancashire.

I'm really only looking for comments – there are candidates on Familysearch marrying - in 1815 John Perry marries Elizabeth Gaskill and in 1818 a John Perry marries Elizabeth Owen but even these are a bit problematic – a long gap before they start having children?
Sorry to put out such a long background but I'm hoping it saves you trawling over ground already covered.

Ken

[Tina]

Hi Ken missed your post.
Just bumping this up.
For the peeps 1901 James Perry is 71 shipwright bn Lpool, wife Ellen 69 bn Chester.
47 Adelaide St Everton.

[Gray]

Hi,

The family you listed 1841 under the name PARRY.

There is a baptism for a Mary PERRY on the OPC site. Her age is slightly out, but her abode is THORNTON Str;

Baptisms: 25 Aug 1833 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Perry - Child of John Perry & Elizabeth
Abode: Thornton St
Occupation: Mariner
Baptised by: Jno. Robinson Asst. Curate
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1834, Page 93, Entry 738
Source: LDS Film 1656421

There are possibly baptisms for the others under the name Perry (need to look at them more.. father John (mariner) mother Elizabeth.. but the addresses are different.. I know they could have moved.. still need to check.
NO James though.

To throw a spanner in the works

There is another Perry family 1841 with a son James right birth year.
All born L.pool but sadly no dad at home.. could be at sea?

H0107/555/6

Ellen Perry c 1806
Catherine c 1826
JAMES c1832

address: Johnson str; Dale str.

Hope this is of some use

Gray

[Gray]

Lo, tis me again.

My internet connection is playing up today.. If I don't get back to you know why.
I will keep looking when I can and get back

Gray

[Gray]

Looking closely at that image 1841 the 'a' looks like an 'e' to me.
If you look at the small 'e' in Catherine.. the are similar.

1851 census:H0107/2195/780/pg3

Head:
Margaret Gaskell unm. c1804 Rainford Lancashire farmer 16 acres
William Sumner serv. c1836 Windle Lancs
Catherine Perry visitor unmarr 1826 dressmaker born Liverpool
Mary Perry visitor unmarr c1832 Liverpool
John Glover lodger un c1814 ag lab Rainford.

There is a marriage for a John Perry to Elizabeth Gaskill (LDS Sp)
3/1/1815 St Peter L.pool
LDS M2095-6
England -ODM
Source film 1068924

According to the 1841 census Elizabeth was born c 1801, this would make her 14 at marr.. I think their ages are a bit out on the census.


OOps! forgot the address: There wasn't one? just Rainford
Gray

[MaryA]

OOps! forgot the address: There wasn't one? just Rainford

I've found that before in Rainford and in other villages, there may not be more than the one road running through. The best thing to do sometimes is to look at the Description of the Enumerator's walk and if you can plot the way he went you might get a better idea of where the house was.

[Gray]

Mary,

I looked at the previous page which said, 'Shell Farm' another family living there.
2 pages after it had the Bull Inn, I've googled but nothing.

It had the district 1c at the top, if that's of any use.

Gray

[Gray]

Looked for margaret Gaskell on the 1841


H0107/515/Book 1
Address: Goining Road district 3 Rainford lancashire
Family all born Rainford:
Ann Gasket head (says Gaskel on image) c 1771 occ: farmer
Peter son c 1801 no occ listed
Margaret dau c 1811 (age out) from the 1851 census

2 doors up there is:
James Gaskel c 1811 occ: ag lab
Mary (wife) c 1816
Elizabeth c 1836 (daugh)

Had a look for baptisms: OPC


Baptisms: 3 Aug 1794 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Gaskell - Daughter of Peter Gaskell & Anne
Born: 10 Jul 1794
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 42, Entry 12
Source: LDS Film 1657568
Possibly the wife of John Perry.. said on the 1841 was born in Lancs County.?

Baptisms: 21 Feb 1796 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Esther Gaskel - Daughter of Peter Gaskel & Anne
Born: 28 Jan 1796
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 46, Entry 6
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Baptisms: 24 Sep 1797 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Peter Gaskel - Son of Peter Gaskel & Anne
Born: 3 Sep 1797
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 49, Entry 13
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Baptisms: 14 Jul 1799 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Anne Gaskel - Daughter of Peter Gaskel & Anne
Born: 21 Jun 1799
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Weaver
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 54, Entry 1
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Ignore this one above (wrong occupation) got carried away

Baptisms: 8 Apr 1802 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
James Gaskel - Son of Peter Gaskel & Anne (twin)
Born: 17 Mar 1802
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 60, Entry 7
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Baptisms: 8 Apr 1802 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Mary Gaskel - Daughter of Peter Gaskel & Anne (Twin)
Born: 17 Mar 1802
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 60, Entry 8
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Baptisms: 27 May 1804 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Margaret Gaskel - Daughter of Peter Gaskel & Anne
Born: 27 Apr 1804
Abode: Rainford
Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptisms 1765 - 1812, Page 65, Entry 12
Source: LDS Film 1657568

There are some of these Christian names listed as children to John Perry & Elizabeth in Liverpool.. John's occ: mariner

Best of luck,

Gray

[MaryA]

In case it's of any help, the Enumerator's district for 1851 is
All that part of the Township of Rainford lying and being on the right side of the Public Road, commencing at Gore's Bridge, dividing Rainford from Billinge, continuing the Public Road past the New Bull, Bullace Tree Road, Chapel Lane Road, past the stocks, down the Thickwood Moss, thence up Crosspit Road, past Dissenting Chapel, Hydes Brow, Reeds Brow, to the Boundary stone, dividing Rainford from Upholland - Bounded on the north by Crosspit Road, Hydes Brow and Reeds Brow - on the South by Billinge - on the East by Billinge and Upholland and on the West by the said Public Road.

Well if you check googlemaps you will see that there is still a Cross Pit Lane so perhaps you can identify the area from that.

Also coincidentally a Whalley Avenue, and also a Whalley's Wood on the other side of the road, heard that name haven't we in connection with Rainford?

[Gray]

Thanks Mary,

This is the sort of thing that 'stumps' me in 'Family History, being a 'novice'.

Am impressed!
Will have to read more me thinks..

Off topic,

I'm just a 'Looker Upper'

Yes, I know all about being a 'Wally'. thanks D
It must be hubbies boat & his navy stuff!

I'm an ex ARMY girl (QARANC)

Off to the lovely city of York tomorrow, it's just beautiful. 20 mins train ride from me.
Grayx

[kwr]

First off - apologies for not seeming to be interested - only just back since last Sunday.
Second off merci a Tina for the bump
Third and especially Grey for being so thorough and putting me to shame.

Can't do anything till tomorrow but will pore over the info (and paw lovingly over it too) and see how it fits.

A happy Ken

[Gray]

Hi Ken,

I would love to know, (when you have had chance to delve) the outcome.

Best wishes,

Gray

[Hilary]

I've been away so just catching up on posts.

The address for the 1841 census for Ann Gaskel (gasket) is adjoining the road and comes between Old Bull and Renys Moss. I'll dig out my old map of the area and see where it is.

Totally irrelevant to this post but my grandparents lived in Whalley Avenue Rainford! It was just I saw it mentioned.

[kwr]

Sorry tosay family matters mean I've had no chance to doanything with Gray's worthy efforts and can't see any improvement likely for some two months. Apologies to all.

Ken

[Gray]

No worries Ken,

Family matters are always the most important!

This will all be here when your ready.

Best wishes

Gray