Ditton Schools 1890 - 1910

[chris leigh]

Yes that old maps site does have the same map.

[Tex T]

Regarding the marriage of John Radley and Harriet Hughes in 1879 at St Michael CofE (Ditton), I went to Widnes Library today for my own research and was intending to also look at the microfilm of the parish register for this marriage. Unfortunately one microfilm reader was not working and the other was in use. However I was able to look at the transcription, so if you are interested, the occupation listed for William Hughes, Harriet’s father, was Farmer.

Also according to the transcriptions, all of their children listed in the 1891 census were baptised at St Michael. They do not appear to have any more children, or at least they did not have any more baptised at St Michael after the baptism of their son John Herbert Radley.

[Cupcake]

Definitely interested. And now ponder about the "carter" that was mentioned earlier. So, I look about "carter" and get -- "A carter is a person that cheers up the medieval town." That would be wonderful, but probably not the correct definition in this case.

But I found this on rootschat: "A cart was a strong vehicle with two wheels, and without springs, used in farming operations, and for carrying heavy goods of various kinds.
(Distinguished from a wagon, which has four wheels.)" From the Dictionary of Occupational Terms:Duff carter, Farm Carter, Haulage contracting Carter, Master Carter,
Metalliferous mine Carter, Rubbish Carter, Slate Quarry Carter, Stone Quarry Carter,
Under Carter, Water Carter. http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/c.html

So it could conceivably be linked to his job as a farmer.

Thank you for thinking of me today and looking that up. A nice surprise along with the baptisms of all John Herbert sisters.

Cheers! Bets

[Cupcake]

Like the links for maps. Cool looking at them as I get used to what's where.

Looking forward to the book.

[dickiesam]

If the Harriett that I found in 1861 with a father William is the right one, he is a carter. This was a common occupation often connected with farming and farm produce. Tracing back, the William I found as probably the right one in 1851 [HO107 - 2507 - 9 - 11] is a farm labourer. I think he had probably died before the 1871 and therefore a long time before Harriett married in 1879. Her description of her father as a 'farmer' was possibly based on general memories connected with farming not on known fact.

His occupation of carter may have been a 'promotion' of sorts from labourer for the farmer for whom he was working to support his 13 (!) children, if you count both 1851 and 1861.

[Cupcake]

Seems to fit. I'll populate my tree with those 13 siblings and see if I can find someone who is working on a Hughes tree who can confirm Harriet as one of them. Now wouldn't that be great to find relatives for Harriet and for me. Thanks!

[Cupcake]

And for even more information on Carter. 13 children. That makes one wonder lots of things. Hope out of happiness for life.

[Cupcake]

Although this topic is about Ditton schools, it is where the topic of Harriet Hughes started and wanted to report on the certificates that came in today's mail.

I received the marriage certificate of 1879 for John Radley and Harriet Hughes. It lists William Hughes as her father, which we knew. It lists his profession as "farmer." It also lists Harriet as a "spinster" at the age of 20. Does this mean a weaver of cloth or does it mean single? She signed her name with an "x" and that is sad.

I also received the birth certificate for Harriet Hughes from St. Asaph in Denbigh. It lists Harriet being born 1 September 1878 (she was born 1857) to William and Elizabeth Hughes (formerly Williams). And the occupation of the father as "Tailor (Master)." I sure hope I didn't put down the incorrect birth date and mixed it up with the marriage date as I don't think they would look 21 years beyond the requested date of 1857. I may have to give this one another try.

That's all I've got for now on Harriet.

Enjoying the Olympics. Thought the opening ceremony was brilliant.

Cheers,
Bets

[MaryA]

If "Spinster" is under the heading of "Condition" then it means that she was single.

Shame that the birth certificate is wrong, check with them to see if it was their mistake before sending any more oney.

[dickiesam]

Re that birth cert...
It does seem you may have got a digit wrong in the year.... although the GRO do slip up occasionally. When you ordered the cert online you would have had an acknowledgment of your order with an order reference number and an on-screen 'receipt' with all the details of the order on it. It is always wise to print that receipt and keep it for checking in cases where the GRO may have made an error.

[MaryA]

Good thinking DS, the acknowledgement would also have been emailed to you, hopefully you may still have that in your Inbox.

[Cupcake]

I saved a copy and sure enough I requested the birth certificate for 1858. Maybe they are muddled! I will contact them. Will let you know the outcome.

[Cupcake]

I believe I am in the original place where Chris offered to send me the "History of Ditton" CD. The CD arrived and I find it to be a terrific primer on Ditton. Lots of basic information all done in a very readable style. And with a bit of humor (humour). Even found my ancestor Joseph who was the tenant at Cow Lane of 11 acres. And John, Joseph and James bet. 1781 and 1866 who either lived or owned land in Ditton, which begs the question, were my ancestors at one time land owners and became landless farmers after the enclosures. Well, that's another question and more research.

But wanted you to know the CD arrived and is very interesting. I would recommend it as part of one's research into the village, it's people, way of life and development. More of a CD of the common people.

Cheers,

Bets

[MaryA]

That sounds just what you wanted, a good insight into the social history of your family and their life.

[Cupcake]

Final post in this topic: The 1940 US Census indicates the highest level of school my grandfather, John Herbert Radley, of Hough Green attended was 6. The highest level for his American wife was the first year of high school. Don't know whether that educational difference would make a difference.

[Cupcake]

I said I would get back to you on the continuing saga of Harriet once I received her birth certificate.

Response from GRO: HARRIET HUGHES born 01-JAN-1858 in LLANGYNIEW MONTGOMERYSHIRE We have searched the indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1857-1859). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided.

Dates 1857 - 1859 were based on her obituary which indicated she was 86 in 1945.

However, a 1911 census puts her dob as 1862. The 1891 she is 20 (1861).

I will reapply to the GRO for a birth certificate from Llangyniew Montgomeryshire for 1860-1862 and let you know.

PS When you order online from the GRO with a credit card, you are fully refunded if the search doesn't turn anything up.

[MaryA]

Fingers crossed that with a different date you might have some luck, meanwhile it would be a good idea to try to search for a baptism as Hilary suggests.

[Cupcake]

As a further update, I am coming to Ditton the week of 16 September to spend time getting to know the place and seeing all the places we have talked about.

I will also look for Harriet's grave at Farnworth and perhaps go over to Montgomeryshire and see what I can do in person.

I would like to join you all on your regularly-scheduled meeting Wednesday, 19 September if that is alright.

Bets a/k/a Elizabeth
Your American Cousin

[Hilary]

I've copied my post on your Harriet Hughes thread. However it refers to information Dickiesam gave you on your post on "Finding a grave".

It would be helpful if you put your new post onto your old post to save people trying to find all the earlier information.

A bit of googling shows that Llangyniew is actually in Powys and in the Llanfyillin registration district which Dickiesam said on one of his earlier posts.
There are no Harriet Hughes birth registration for 1855 - 1865 in that registration district.

As her obituary states Montgomeryshire I would try looking for baptisms of Harriet and any known siblings but bear in mind it may not be her place of birth. Do you know her father's name? If yes you could give that for your search. What about a sibling how about trying to find one of their birth certificates that would give you both parnet's names.

[dickiesam]

As a further update, I am coming to Ditton the week of 16 September to spend time getting to know the place and seeing all the places we have talked about.

I will also look for Harriet's grave at Farnworth and perhaps go over to Montgomeryshire and see what I can do in person.

I would like to join you all on your regularly-scheduled meeting Wednesday, 19 September if that is alright.

Bets a/k/a Elizabeth
Your American Cousin

Hi Bets,
Hope your trip proves fruitful and if you discover that Harriet actually came from County Wexford I'll put the kettle on!