Trip Advice

[dxbudgie]

I will be visiting Liverpool for a day or two during my upcoming trip to England early May from America. I have several names and dates of relatives who lived there, 2 of which I am positive died there also. I have had little luck tracking down their death certificates and I can only guess at their approximate years of death. I am hoping to find this out at the least and maybe get a chance to visit their graves during my trip but I'm lost on how to approach this. Any advice would be most welcome.

[Blue70]

Hi

Welcome to the forum. Could you give us some details about the people whose deaths you're looking for ie names, birth details, census appearances etc we may be able to help you find them.

Blue

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Blue's advice is good, get your research done in advance of your visit so post some information about those you are searching for and if we can help we will.

[Tina]

Hi dxbudgie
Good tips from Blue, do as much of the hard yards as you can, with the help of forum members.
Welcome aboard

Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi dxbudgie
Good tips from Blue, do as much of the hard yards as you can, with the help of forum members.
Welcome aboard

Tina

Hi dxbudgie,
Welcome!
I ditto Tina's post. Lots of willing help here. Post as much info as you can, every snippet helps.

[dxbudgie]

Thank you all!

There people I have solid evidence for are:

James Tate (Tait) b.1800 d. sometime between 1851-1861
He was listed in the 1851 census with his children but not in 1861

Mary Greenall (Greenhall) b. 1810 d. between 1847-1851
I calculated that from the birth of her last child to the first census which she was not listed on.

I have their marriage certificate dated 9 Aug 1841 at Saint Paul, Saint Paul Square, Liverpool. Fathers were listed as Richard Tate Farmer and Richard Greenall Brewer.

Their first child Richard was born 1939 in Liverpool and christened 11 Feb 1839 at Saint Peter, Liverpool.
Other children were:
Catherine b. 1842 Liverpool (My direct ancestor)
Jane b. 1847 Liverpool d. 1920 New York
Martha (Mary) b. 1844 Liverpool

Addresses that I have for them:

28 Ormond St.
5 Wellington St.


Catherine and Jane married two brothers from Germany: Henry and Johann Tavis (Teves). I have a lot of information about them after their marriage but I know very little about the men before that. How, when, or why they moved to Liverpool. I don't know if this will be possible to find out but I feel it will help me to find their German roots if I can find more about them during this time. Henry converted his name to English but Johann did not which I find interesting. Their father is listed as Johann (John) Frederick Tavis (Teves).
Henry was b. 1838 in Hamburg. He and Catherine married 21 Jun 1863 in All Saints, Liverpool.
Johann b. 1837 Hamburg or Hanover. He and Jane married 16 Oct. 1864 at Saint Paul

My primary goals beyond gathering as much information as I can about these families is to ultimately find the burial site of James and Mary if possible so that I can pay my respects during my visit and hopefully find some immigration information on the Tavis men.

Thank you all for the help!

[dickiesam]

Hi,
I found these possible Liverpool [and near] deaths for James Tait/Tate between April 1851 and April 1861:

TAIT James Henry - West Derby - 1853
TAIT James - Prescot - 1856
TATE James - West Derby - 1854
TATE James - Liverpool - 1854
TATE James - Liverpool - 1861

If James stuck with Tait the 1853 death looks a strong possibility.

These are the Mary Greenall deaths for the same area:
GREENALL Mary- Liverpool - 1846
GREENALL Mary - Liverpool - 1846
GREENALL Mary - Liverpool - 1847
GREENALL Mary Ann - Prescot - 1849

From what you have said the 1847 death for Mary looks the most likely.
You can get the full GRO Index references from FreeBMD http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Good luck in the search,

[dxbudgie]

would her death records have been under her maiden name of Greenall or her married name of Tate?

[MaryA]

would her death records have been under her maiden name of Greenall or her married name of Tate?

I wondered but then you gave her name as Greenall so thought she was different from the marriage.

[dickiesam]

would her death records have been under her maiden name of Greenall or her married name of Tate?

I wondered but then you gave her name as Greenall so thought she was different from the marriage.

I also thought she was Mary Greenall when she died, so here are the Mary Tait/Tate deaths..
Her death would have been registered under her married surname.

TATE Mary Holt - Liverpool 1847.
TATE Mary Matilda - Liverpool 1847.
TATE Mary - Liverpool 1849.
TATE Mary Jane - Liverpool 1850.

[Hilary]

Could you post some census information on the Teves brothers as I'm finding them difficult to find?

When do they first appear in Liverpool?

Interestingly in 1861 Richard, Catherine and Jane are all listed as son, daughters but no sign of their father James.

[dxbudgie]

I have not found any census information on the Tavis/Teves brothers my only evidence of their lives in Liverpool is their marriage certificates. Henry and Catherine were m. 21 Jun 1863 All Saints, Johann and Jane m. 16 Oct 1864 St. Paul. Both brothers moved to America with their families in 1870.

And yes I did notice that on the 1861 census but I just assumed it was an error and used that as my guess that James must have died between 51 and 61.

[dxbudgie]

Just wanted to update this thread and thank everyone for the help. My trip to the temporary archives was not really any help to me. The librarian informed me that there was no public access to vital records and I would have to write to the records office and pay for each search. So a bit of a dead end there. I was quite disappointed as the New York archives has all BM&D records available on microfilm so I was expecting the same.

My second idea was to visit the churches that I knew to have a connection to my family (Weddings, christenings etc) but unfortunately both have since been demolished, cemeteries included. So I feel at a bit of a dead end in finding James and Mary's death information and possibly birth information.

Not sure how to proceed from this point so any advice would be most welcome! It was a nice trip regardless, and I can highly recommend the 62 Castle Street hotel. Really nice place

[MaryA]

I'm sorry we didn't realise that you weren't aware that BMD's are not available from the REcord Office. I think you would find it useful to read the tips we have tried to put together.
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =25&t=6937

It might be that baptisms, marriages and burials might be of some help.

[dxbudgie]

No problem that was my own fault for not looking more carefully at what is available at the centers!

Thank you for the link I will take a closer look at the forum tips and resources before making my next move.

[Tina]

D.S & Blue
Did you notice Richard Greenall was a brewer??
Such a famous name..

Cheers

[Blue70]

No didn't spot that at the time LOL. Here's some background information about the Greenall's the famous brewers:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Vere_Group


Blue

[dickiesam]

D.S & Blue
Did you notice Richard Greenall was a brewer??
Such a famous name..

Cheers

Hi Tina,
Saw that but never drank Greenall's ales. Our rugby club had a deal with Yates' and anywhere else I drank my dad's drink Bass with a whisky chaser!

[dxbudgie]

I had seen that when I did a little google searching on breweries that he might have worked at but I didn't figure it would be the same person. I know that James and Mary died very poor and their census information lists them both as being from Ireland though I don't know where from or when they moved. I couldn't make any real connection so I had forgotten about it untill you brought it up again, maybe its worth another look.


Incidentally I have since found Mary's burial place and date and used that to guess on a death cert that I sent for. I found her by scouring all the parish registers for Liverpool Central. She was buried in St. John's 13 Aug 1949. No listing of her details but the Address matched so thats pretty good evidence for me!

Funny story about that: My first day in Liverpool during my vacation I fell and sprained my ankle while my boyfriend and I were walking through St. John's Garden. I had no idea at the time Mary was buried there- I literally tripped over her lol

[MaryA]

Funny story about that: My first day in Liverpool during my vacation I fell and sprained my ankle while my boyfriend and I were walking through St. John's Garden. I had no idea at the time Mary was buried there- I literally tripped over her lol

Often hear of coincidences such as that - she was calling you to make sure you didn't miss finding her!