John Lee and Mary Flint marriage

[dickiesam]

Here's a thought....
Applying the same process to that I used when searching for a Mary Flint, John Thomas would probably have been at least 18 when he fathered his first child, giving a probable latest YoB of 1905.

Between 1885 and 1905 there are only 2 births in Liverpool...
Births Mar 1889: Lee, John Thomas - Liverpool - 8b - 19.
Births Sep 1896: Lee, John Thomas - W. Derby - 8b - 589.

This death leaves just one candidate from Liverpool...
Deaths Dec 1889: Lee, John Thomas - 1 - Liverpool - 8b - 36.

[MaryA]

Sorry neither of them are turning up in the baptisms.
There is one baptised 13 Mar 1881 Toxteth Park St John the Baptist with St Thomas, parents Thomas Lee, Mary Jane Lee

and another
Born 31 Dec 1872 Baptised 6 Mar 1873 Liverpool St Peter parents John Turner Lee, Mary Lee

[julie]

im lost just were do you get your info from as you all found some right info on my family and im still stuggling to come up with any .. im thinking now to look for the children of james lee... and kathleen lee now kelly lives in blackpool

[julie]

found mary flint baptised 1897 county limerick i think thats her she IS irish

[dickiesam]

found mary flint baptised 1897 county limerick i think thats her she IS irish

This is the birth of that Mary Flint:

Birth: Mary Flint
Registration district: Limerick
Registration quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1896
Volume number: 5
Page number: 340
***************
CLDS data:
Film number: 101066
Digital folder number: 4193980
Image number: 00198

This Mary does not appear in the Irish 1901 census, so she may have been in England. But she hasn't been found there in 1901 either. I still think the better prospect is the one born in Prescot in 1896.

With regard to why Mary and John do not appear to have married and my earlier supposition, you should bear in mind and perhaps check this marriage in case it is your John Thomas... Without John's father's name it will be difficult to be sure. But he may have named one of his sons after his own father. And the T may not be Thomas so you would then rule it out.

John T Lee married Ellen Dickinson.
Registration district: Birkenhead, Cheshire
Year/qtr of registration: 1916 / Oct-Nov-Dec
Volume no: 8A; Page no: 966.

I haven't found any children registered from this marriage.

[MaryA]

perhaps check this marriage in case it is your John Thomas... Without John's father's name it will be difficult to be sure. But he may have named one of his sons after his own father. And the T may not be Thomas so you would then rule it out.

Ellen Dickinson married John Thomas Lee in 1916 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage from CheshireBMD

[julie]

that maybe the case as my dad was named after his dad it may go on and on

[dickiesam]

perhaps check this marriage in case it is your John Thomas... Without John's father's name it will be difficult to be sure. But he may have named one of his sons after his own father. And the T may not be Thomas so you would then rule it out.

Ellen Dickinson married John Thomas Lee in 1916 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage from CheshireBMD

That's great MaryA. Saves the cost of a cert for now. I am beginning to think this may be the right man. He would probably have been of military age and saw service in WW1. Perhaps his papers survived?

With no children from the marriage one could speculate on a marriage breakdown and with divorce out of the question because of the cost back then, he did what my g.father did. My maternal g.father took a partner and had my mother. This g.father's legal spouse died nearly 20 years after my mother was born and my maternal g.parents eventually married in 1926 in Liverpool Registry Office.

[julie]

so my grandad was married before mary flint ? wow naughty man thank you for this info much appriciated

[julie]

i am going to look for possible living relitives as i know my aunt kathleen married william kelly but dont know if they had children thank you everyone who has helped me on my way i now know a lot more about my dad than i have ever known in my life cheers x

[dickiesam]

so my grandad was married before mary flint ? wow naughty man thank you for this info much appriciated

Only surmising Julie! Only surmising!
A common 'cause' of no marriage but several children is that one party was already married. Incidentally, my paternal g.g.father married in Limerick in 1853, fathered a son, and went off to the Crimean War abt 1855. Next time he pops up he's with another woman and has 5 children with her in Dublin starting with my paternal g.father in 1864. The family moved to Liverpool abt 1875. His first wife died in Limerick in 1883 and my g.g.parents married in Liverpool in 1885.

[julie]

well it seems to be normal thing to do lol get married and have kids with a few woman same as my dad did thanks for your post means alot ..

[MaryA]

Unfortunately can't see either Service or Pension Records using his full name, there are plenty of course, and too many to search through using just "John" unless we knew some more details for certain, but discounting those from other areas around the country, I haven't been able to identify one from either Lancashire or Cheshire.

[julie]

john thomas lee was a dock labourer in liverpool im unsure of his d.o.b its all i know about my grandad ..

[julie]

the death certificate ...my grandmother mary lee died at 126 smithdown road liverpool lived at 5 great george square 1n 1933 still cant find grave no records .. what do you advise ??

[MaryA]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by there are no records? There may not be any records for that year online since websites are being created by volunteer transcribers and as such these things take time, however, if you were willing to go to the Record Office you would find the entries for all the cemeteries which you would be able to search for the appropriate year.

You may need to search a few different cemeteries and possibly even churchyards.

[julie]

Name = Mary Lee
Age = 36
Address = 5 Great George Square
Cemetery = Allerton Cemetery
Date of Burial = 15th November 1933
Section = 32
Plot = 271

C/E Public Grave, may or may not have a headstone

[MaryA]

Well done. Allerton have a website http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ormandy/ for more information about the cemetery.