John Lee and Mary Flint marriage

[julie]

im looking for my dads family his name is john lee born 1928 his sister is kathleen w lee 1929 brother james j lee 1924 born in liverpool .. mother mary flint father john thomas lee ..

[dickiesam]

Hi Julie,
Unfortunately we don't usually look for possibly living people on this genealogy forum but can sometimes help off forum.
While checking for second forename initials, most important with a relatively common name as Lee, I couldn't find a James Lee nee Flint born around 1933. So expanded the search and found these...

Births Dec 1924: Lee, James J - Flint - Liverpool - 8b - 141
Births Mar 1926: Lee, Albert P - Flint - Liverpool - 8b - 190 [Appears to have died 1929].
Births Jun 1928: Lee, John - Flint - Liverpool - 8b - 178.
Births Sep 1929: Lee, Kathleen W - Flint - Liverpool - 8b - 177
Births Dec 1933: Lee, Ronald - Flint - Liverpool South - 8b - 108. [Appears to have died 1933]

Are they all yours?

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

DS yes you have the right children, Julie originally posted some information on the Facebook site and I asked her to post what she had on here. She has confirmed that apart from the couple of children she has mentioned, there were the others - Albert and Ronald who died at an early age.

She also commented that the family lived at lived at "110 pitt st liverpool". Julie is this address from the birth certificate of one of the children? and also the parents names from it? We would be interested to know all details from the certificate, ie who registered the birth and from where and what was the father's occupation?

What is a little obscure is the marriage, has anybody had any luck in discovering one? I wondered if it might have taken place in Ireland.

[julie]

hello and yes the address was on john lee birth citificate in 1928 mary lee maiden name flint registerd the birth in abercromby county of liverpool father john thomas lee dock worker .

[MaryA]

Have sent Julie a pm regarding possible descendants of Kathleen.

[dickiesam]

Well a marriage has so far eluded me! Looked at Ireland but didn't find a Mary Flint getting married up to 1924 when James was born [note not 1933]. I am thinking perhaps one of the couple was already married and perhaps that marriage was a 'casualty of war' as many were.

I have found a couple of marriages, possibly, hopefully, James and Kathleen, that I have PMd to Julie. The certs will be needed to confirm the right person and whether the father was still alive. The latter info to reduce the time frame for his death.

Julie, do you have any idea of when Mary and John might have died?

EDIT to ask: Julie, if you have birth certs for your father and/or his siblings did their father have a second forename or initial?

[dickiesam]

More to consider...
Assuming as a start that Mary Flint was 18 when she had her first child in 1923, she would have been born in 1905. Incidentally there are no Flint/Flint or Lee/Flint births from 1910 to 1922. Taking the 1905 date as one limit and 1895 as the other, a search of the last census with a YoB of 1900 +/- 5 years only gives 7 hits in Lancashire for a Mary Flint [no middle name or initial]. And the nearest to Liverpool is in Warrington with a YoB of 1903.

Stretching the search back a bit, there is a Mary Flint aged 19, bn in Prescot, Lancashire. But she would have been 40 when her last child was born. Quite unusual at the time but not unheard of. I understand there may have been a hint of a Welsh connection for her? Where does that hint come from?

Did Mary have a second forename or initial on any of the birth certs? It may be necessary to check every one of them and the two death certs for the two very young children.

[julie]

thank you all for your comments mary flint died in 1933 as mary lee also her husband was john thomas lee who i believe to have died around or only a few years after the three living children james john and kathleen was then placed in care . i heard that james married a canadian lady ? kathleen maried to a man called kelly ? and john married patricia proudfoot then later married a evelyn knight / gordon im trying to trace kathleen her children and james and his children many thanks julie

[MaryA]

I believe you may have received some private messages that might assist you in your search for living relatives, we have also tried to put together a few suggestions as others have had similar queries. http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =14&t=8154

[dickiesam]

Hi Julie,
So the 1933 death for Mary Flint appears to be the right one? You should get the death cert to confirm this is her. It would also confirm there was no marriage.

As to John Thomas Lee there are no deaths in Liverpool up to 1950, but there are 3 deaths in Liverpool for a Thomas John Lee, 1938 aged 66, 1941 aged 64, and 1948 aged 74. From what you have said about the family it would seem the 1838 is the most probable although their ages are on the 'high' side. There is a death in Southport in 1934 of a John Thomas Lees aged 64, again a bit old to have fathered Ronald the previous year. You need the a birth cert for one of the children to confirm his names.

If the 1933 death of Mary Flint is the right one, this is a possible birth as the year is correct....
Births Sep 1897: Flindt, Marie Belle - W. Derby - 8b - 479.
Her parents are Charles and Mary Flindt.

Re the possible Irish origin, there are no Mary Flints around the right age in either the 1901 or 1911 Irish Censuses.

And I strongly suggest you don't try to trace the children of the two possible marriages without first confirming that the marriages are the right ones. You could be wasting your time without that vital 'paper' confirmation, and end up contacting the wrong people.

[MaryA]

I wondered if I could find a baptism with that spelling, none appeared for Mary/Marie but I wondered if this one could be connected, especially in view of the parents names.
St John the Evangelist, Everton
Born 25th October, 1891 and baptised 9th December, 1891
Andrew Harold Flindt, parents Andrew Charles and Mary Hall Flindt
Address 6 St Andrew Road
Occupation Clerk

Would like some thoughts on this entry as I believe the father, Andrew Charles is one of five children baptised in the same church to Andrew Carl Theodor and Dulcibella Flindt.

[MaryA]

This might just be muddying the waters even more.

The marriage of Marie B Flindt was to William R Fell in 1925 Walton on the Hill, St. John The Evangelist, Q3 1925 W.Derby 8b 903 so I would suspect that Marie and Andrew were brother and sister and possibly the online registers just don't go up to the date of Marie's baptism. Julie should perhaps try to check the register at the Record Office - if we think this is "our" Mary Flint.

[MaryA]

I have my doubts that this is the right person, there is a death
Marie Belle Fell born 1897 died Jun 1990 Hounslow London

[julie]

i have jon lee birth cirtificate on that it says name and surname of father john thomas lee name and surname of mother mary lee formally flint occupation of father dock board labourer registerd 24th may 1928 thats all i have many thanks julie

[julie]

i also can say i am thinking my dad must of lived with his brother james and his wife kathleen as she has a sister called hellena and my dad used to talk to me about a kathleen and hellena benson ?? and his sister was also kathleen so this is were i get confused many thanks julie

[MaryA]

Well I do believe you have been provided with details of a marriage for James which would match your thoughts, so no need to be confused about that any longer, yes there would appear to be two Kathleens.

As for the Marie Belle Flindt, if we are all in agreement that it is incorrect, at least this is an avenue that has been researched and can now be put to bed.

[dickiesam]

Well I do believe you have been provided with details of a marriage for James which would match your thoughts, so no need to be confused about that any longer, yes there would appear to be two Kathleens.

As for the Marie Belle Flindt, if we are all in agreement that it is incorrect, at least this is an avenue that has been researched and can now be put to bed.

That marriage you found, MaryA, confirms the Flindt I found was not Julie's Mary. So case closed on that search. In which case the other one I found.....

Stretching the search back a bit, there is a Mary Flint aged 19 [bn 1892 in Prescot, Lancashire] in the last census. But she would have been 40 when her last child was born. Quite unusual at the time but not unheard of.

Perhaps her age was a contributory cause of her death in childbirth in 1933? It was 4 years after the previous birth. Looking forward to hearing what her death cert says. And her age at death, given by the informant, may well have been a best guess as happened so often in the past.

[MaryA]

We are of course assuming that she died under the name of Flint - Lee would be even worse to narrow down I think.

[dickiesam]

We are of course assuming that she died under the name of Flint - Lee would be even worse to narrow down I think.

You are right. But I did find this, the only death in the same qtr as the child's death..
Deaths Dec 1933: Lee, Mary - 36 - Liverpool - 8b - 173.

But weird, I can't find the Flint death I found earlier. I probably need new glasses!

[julie]

that would be correct mary lee death at 36 if they were married as i thought they were