JOHN KELLY 1888 - KIRDALE

[Sue H]

Hi Folks
Wonder can you help I am trying to trace my grandad JOHN KELLY and I am afraid I havent got much to go on!! I do have his and Nan's marriage certificate and it goes like this

John Kelly 24 yr Bachelor
Oil mill labourer
27 Docaster Street, Liverpool
Patrick Kelly(dec)Wardrobe Dealer

Bridget Edwards 23 Yr Spinster
Bag Mender 93, Ashfield Street Liverpool
Robert Eaton Edwards (deceased General labourer

I cant find John .......but I did find Nan's family in 1911 at 92 Benledi Street Liverpool and have been able to go further back with her parents and grandparents.........but John is a puzzle. Nobody is really sure whether he was from Ireland or IOM!!

Bridget Kelly died 8th August 1966, and I think I found her in Ford Cemetery, I had hoped they would be together but I am drawing a blank at mo......... I am told John Kelly possibly died 1944-1949. This would have been I think in Kirdale, but not sure. But there seems to be hundreds of JOHN KELLY'S all buried in Ford Cemetery!! On mums marriage certificate in 1951 her address is 100a Conleach Rad Speke and John Kelly was deceased and had been a chargehand in an oil cake mill (what ever that was)

Could anyone kindly help?

[Hilary]

When and where were the grandparents married? What are their ages on the marriage certifciate?

[Sue H]

Hi
John Kelly was 24 and Bridget Edwards 23
They were married on 5th Septemeber 1912 at St Sylvesters Church, Silvester Street, Liverpool in the presence of F Edwards (we think this is nan's brother Frank) and Margaret Davies, who we dont know of.

Sue

[dickiesam]

Hi Sue,
You omitted the date of their marriage. Is this it?
John Kelly married Bridget Edwards
Registration district: Liverpool
Year/qtr of registration: 1912 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 244

Re the oil cake mill.. this will explain what they did there.. Not the same one that John Kelly worked in, that could have been Bibby's [from memory]. http://www.gloucesterdocks.me.uk/glouce ... osmill.htm

Please post the names of the witnesses to the marriage.

[Sue H]

Hi dikiesam

Frank Edwards, nans brother and a Margaret Davies dont know who she was.

[Blue70]

There's a John Kelly son of a Patrick Kelly living in Benledi Street in 1901:-


1901 Census

37 Benledi Street

Patrick Kelly, 40, Dock Labourer, Prescot Lancs
Margaret Kelly, 40, Liverpool Lancs
John Kelly, 16, Dock Labourer, Liverpool Lancs
Michael Kelly, 13, Liverpool Lancs
Catherine Kelly, 6, Liverpool Lancs
Thomas Kelly, 4, Liverpool Lancs


Blue

[dickiesam]

Just a quick comment before my tea goes cold.....
There's something strange about the address, 93 Ashfield Street, Bridget gave at her marriage in 1912. Only a year previous #s 91 and 93 were stables! In 1901 the two properties are not listed as a dwellings.

[dickiesam]

Two more quickies...

1) When was the last child born to Bridget and John? Would give a start date for a search for his death.
2) Does Bridget's death certificate say she was a widow when she died? If she wasn't a widow then her date of death would be the start date.

[padjo1]

Hi Sue H, and Hi all

Not sure if you have this already, may give us something to go on though


I have checked the address of St Martins Cottage in 1911, the Edwards family live there.

Doncaster Street, is revealing nothing at the numbers stated. More checking to be done. Maybe wrong think St Martins Cottages where off Ashfield Street, just up from Benledi Street. ( Look at the other addresses on the copy of Marriage all in the same streets)

regards

Michelle

[Sue H]

Hi Folks

Marriage certificate def say 93 Ashfield Street Liverpool for BRIDET EDWARDS
In 1911 I have found her at 92 Benledi Street, the occupation of BAG MENDER is the same as marraige certificate(which I have here) and her parent names are definately EATON ROBERT AND SARAH ANNE(LEE)

JOHN KELLY gives his address as 27 Doncaster Street

What you found Padjo1 seems to be similar!! Even to the David Fitzgrald who conducted it........but why different address?........and why have I found the Edwards family at 92 Benledi Street 1911

Last child was my mum born 20th April 1930... address for her was 16c Ownen House, Owen Road. I was told by her sister a few years ago that their father died at the age of 62?? possibly in 1949 although mum thinks she was around 10-14 so that would make it between 1940-44 . Mum now has dementia and is the last of the sister/brothers, so I am a bit stuck

Nanna Kelly was def widow when she died.........I never met my grandfather

The JOHN KELLY found at 37 BENLEDI STREET sounds good but I cant find the EDWARDS family in 1901

JUST NOTICED THAT 93 ST MARTINS COTTAGES ..............COULD IT BE THE SAME AS 93 ASHFIELD STREET

SUE

[padjo1]

Hi Sue

I checked FMP, for the address search and when I entered the address, Saint Martins Cottages, there where a few options, e.g South St Martins Cottages , and One St Martin's Cottages, Ashfield Street.

I found an Edwards family at 93 South St Martins Cottages

RG number: RG14, Piece: 22127 , Reference: RG14PN22127 RG78PN1311 RD453 SD1 ED11 SN428 - Added later 1911 census


EDWARDS, Charles, Head, Married, M, 32, 1879 , Quay Carter, Lancs Liverpool
EDWARDS, Helen, Wife, Married, F, 27, 1884, Lancs, Liverpool

EDWARDS, Elizabeth, Daughter, F, 4, 1907, Lancs, Liverpool

EDWARDS, Ellen, Daughter, F, 0, 1911, Lancs, Liverpool

EDWARDS, Sarah Ann, Daughter, F, 2, 1909,

Hope this helps will keep looking for you

[Sue H]

Hi Padjo

Dont think these are my bunch of Edwards.........mine are def at 93 Benledi street


Bridget Edwards
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 92 Benledi St, Liverpool
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Bag Repairer
Registration district: Liverpool
Registration District Number: 453
Sub-registration district: Scotland
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Piece: 22121


Sarah Ann Edwards 56
Mary Edwards 29
Bridget Edwards 23
Sarah Edwards 18
Francis Edwards 20
Mary Edwards 17
Annie Edwards 4/12

[Sue H]

ophs just notice I put 93 instead of 92

[dickiesam]

These are the John Kelly deaths in Liverpool between 1940 [your mum's recollection] and 1966 [when Bridget died] with a YoB of 1888 +/- 2 years.
KELLY, John - Liverpool South - 1940.
KELLY, John - Bootle (Lancashire) - 1944.
KELLY, John - Liverpool South - 1946.
KELLY, John - Liverpool South - 1949.

Plus these 2 which I have discounted because there isn't a sign of a second forename for John. I assume you have birth certs for some of your mother's siblings and that he is just John Kelly on them:
KELLY, John H - Liverpool North - 1946.
KELLY, John A - Liverpool North - 1955.

I would put the 1957 death at the bottom of my 'to do' list because your mum and your aunt memories more or less ruled the year out.
Of the 4 possibles left I would put the 1949 death at the top of the 'to do' list, followed by the 1944 death. Unfortunately there is no way one can ask the GRO to check for status or next of kin of the deceased, so it would be fingers crossed..... And regarding the age at death of 62 given by your aunt, ages at death are notoriously at risk of being incorrect. Often the informant would be making a best guess when asked for age by the registrar.

However, you might be able to narrow the field a little by knowing where the family lived in the 1940s and 50s and tie those addresses into Liverpool North, South or Bootle. That could change my 'priority' list.

EDIT to remove a death from the list in view of Sue's info in a later post that when her mother married in 1951 her father wsa deceased. KELLY, John - Liverpool North - 1957.

[Sue H]

hi dickiesam

Heres what i have
1930 16c Owen House, Owen Road.......off mums birth certificate
1951 address on my mothers marriage certificates is 100A CONLEACH ROAD SPEKE L19 father deceased
both certificates give him only as JOHN KELLY

Other known addresses are RUMNEY ROAD AND 8 GARNET AVENUE

Bridget Kelly died 8th august 1966 and her address was LYME CLOSE, KNOWSLEY she moved there maybe early 60's to be near her daughter Josie, I remember visiting her there, and I think she died at home. I have ordered her death certificate

[padjo1]

Hi Sue

Do you have Bridgets family in 1891??

Michelle

[dickiesam]

1951 address on my mothers marriage certificates is 100A CONLEACH ROAD SPEKE L19 father deceased
both certificates give him only as JOHN KELLY

Subject to correction by the crew here I would suggest the deaths registered in Liverpool South would cover the Speke area, and there would appear to be just the 2 possibles, 1946 and 1949. If that is correct you have a 50% chance of getting the right cert, which I think is 1949.

[Sue H]

Hi Michelle

here they are

Eton P Edward
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah S Edward
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Athanasius
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2963
Folio: 51
Page Number: 38

Eton P Edward 37
Sarah S Edward 36
Charles J Edward 12
Mary Edward 7
Peter Edward 7
Bridget Edward 5
Frank E Edward 2

The address is 31 Tillard Street Liverpool

[Sue H]

Dickiesam

Will go for 1949 then, thank you so much will order this tomorrow

[padjo1]

Hi Sue

On the Edwards side of your folks in 1891, could this be them???


EDWARDS, Eton R, Head, Married, M, 37, 1854, Labourer In Rubber Factory, Ireland
EDWARDS, Sarah A, Wife, Married, F, 36, 1855, Liverpool, Lancashire
EDWARDS, Charles J, Son, Single, M, 12, 1879, Scholar, Liverpool, Lancashire
EDWARDS, Mary, Daughter, Single, F, 9, 1882, Scholar, Liverpool, Lancashire
EDWARDS, Peter, Son, Single, M, 7, 1884, Scholar, Liverpool, Lancashire
EDWARDS, Bridget, Daughter, Single, F, 5, 1886, Liverpool, Lancashire
EDWARDS, Francis E, Son, Single, M, 2, 1889, Liverpool, Lancashire

Piece: 2963 Folio: 51, Page: 38, Registration District: West Derby
31 Tillard Street, I believe between Fountains Road, and Lambeth Road. I know this area well from school would have come under St Athanasius church or St John The Evangelist Church. Parallel to Fountains Road, was Owen Road, where Owen House was, " The Buildings" as they where called.

Maybe not them , but a few matches on names here

Michelle