Where to go in Liverpool

[Sjhb81]

Hi, I have been redirected to this forum from rootschat.com as the members there feel you will be able to help me more.

I have lived in London my whole life and so did my parents but I have recently discovered that my great grandparents were from Liverpool, toxteth area it seems mostly.

I am planning a trip to Liverpool next month as I have never been there but want to visit some places if they still exist!

My great grandfathers address at the time of his death was Fletcher Street but have been told this road is no longer there sadly.

He was buried in what is now called the Walton Park cemetery and what I want to know is how do i go about finding whereabouts in the cemetery his grave is?

I know he once lived in Back south Chester street and I take it that is no longer there either? And also I discovered that his daughter died in the toxteth workhouse and that all that remains is the clock tower now.

Any help you can give me would be great

Thank you

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

So far as Walton Cemetery is concerned I found some contact information which I posted on this message
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... ton#p85525

Do contact them far enough in advance of your visit that they might be able to discover the location of the grave before you arrive and so save you a wasted journey there.

Much of Liverpool has been redeveloped over recent years, but I would suggest that you make a list of as many addresses as you are interested in and try to match up the present day area on, say, googlemaps, with the streepmaps on the Liverpool History Projects site http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolaz/ then you will know what are still standing for you to visit. If you are stuck with any, let us know and we will try to help identify where they are/were.

The Record Office is in William Brown Street, for the time being on the 2nd Floor of the World Museum, if you wanted to research anything that is on microfilm, however for any documents or photographs, these will be held at the satellite office at Sandhills. Details of this location and updates on the refurbishment of the original Record Office are here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =23&t=9679 I mention photographs as the Record Office hold a lot that are very useful especially after streets no longer exist.

Don't forget to take your camera as you will probably be allowed to take pictures of any documents you are interested in, and if you go to the Record Office, take some change for photocopies.

Do remember that although the address on a death certificate might sound like a workhouse, an infirmary was usually attached to them and it could well have been there that somebody was taken either when ill, giving birth, or dying.

Hope you enjoy trip and if you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask here.

[padjo1]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

This is the ideal place to find out information, there are some real experts on here that cover most topics.

I have found everybody very welcoming and excellent responses to my questions

regards

Michelle

[Sjhb81]

Thank you for your help

The addresses they lived at I got from the census returns, 1891 was annerley street, 1901 was 16,2 in court, mill street and 1911 it was 4 back south Chester street. The address at the time of my great grandfathers death in 1936 was 35 fletcher street but I have a feeling none of these are still around.

On the other side of the family, my great grandmothers family ran boarding houses in Norfolk street, is that still around? Their last address on the 1911 census was upper Pitt street.

Again thank you for your help
Sarah

[padjo1]

Hi Sarah

Upper Pitt Street and Norfolk street, are still there, in the city centre we may say, most likely changed but gives you an indication of the area.

Will check the other addresses out for you.

regards

Michelle

[padjo1]

Hi Sarah,

Annerley Street, was off Earle Road/ Spofforth Road in Edge Hill as I can see, sadly no longer there, possibly where the medical centre is now.

Can't find a back Chester Street, there is a Chester Street, off Park Lane, Toxteth Liverpool 8, so maybe back Chester Street was there at the time.

Mill Street, is still there in Toxteth, but think these are new houses as well.

Can anybody else clarify this information for Sarah, please.

regards

Michelle

[daggers]

Back Chester Street was a small road off Dexter Street, close to St James's Place which leads to Park Road, not far from St Patrick's RC Church. It is on a map of the 1930s, but almost certainly redeveloped.
Fletcher Street was parallel to Back Chester Street, a few streets to the east.

Daggers

[Tina]

Hi Sarah
A warm welcome from downunder.
It's a lovely of Rootschat to refer you to us.
You have come to the best forum!!
If you could give us some names, we could take this further for you.
In the meantime, enjoy your trip to "The Pool"..

Warmies

[Sjhb81]

Thank you to you all for the warm welcome and the info!

The furthest back I can trace my Nans family is 1861. My nan was Maria Junglas born 18th may 1899 in Liverpool. Her father was Henry Andrew Junglas, this is where it gets mysterious! The only census he shows up on is the 1911 census where he is living at back south Chester street as a dock labourer with his children. He claims to have been born in 1861 in Liverpool but I can't find a birth entry for him. I have tried various spellings of Junglas as it was often spelt wrong but have found nothing.

Henry can't always be relied on however as at his first marriage to my great nan in 1888 he says his father is Henry Junglas a mechanic but when he marries for the second time in 1911 he says his father was Andrew a plumber !!

His first wife Catherine Ellen is found on the 1891 census with son Richard at Annerley street and in 1901 she is listed with her children but no Henry. Catherine died in 1907.

Henry was a seaman and I have found extracts from newspapers to show he was awarded medals for his services to shipwrecked crew, one was even awarded by the president of the united states. ( Liverpool mercury 23/07/ 1897 and Liverpool mercury 19th December 1900). I think maybe he was at sea when the census were taken but he is still not listed on any vessels so heirs a bit of a mystery. Without a birth entry or any census returns I can't find out who his parents were, but I have a feeling that maybe he wasn't born in Liverpool, or even the UK at all.

I have found out alot about his 8 children but not much about Henry himself.

The other side of my family were the Morgans who came to Liverpool around 1850. Thomas Morgan born 1844 ran boarding houses on Norfolk street, they moved around that street alot but were there for a few census'. His son Thomas born 1869 was a team owner which I am sure refers to horse and carts? It was Thomas's son John Morgan that was my grandad. He married Maria junglas in 1925.

A y help would be great, especially in tracing the mysterious Henry Andrew Junglas, he has had me pulling my hair out at times !!

[Barbara B]

Not sure if you're sightseeing as well but if so then look at visitliverpool.com which will give you loads of info about where to go and what to see. Coincidentally I'm coming to Liverpool from France with an assortment of English and French for a week in April. We're really looking forward to it!
Barbara
PS Apologies if this is not strictly family history!

[MaryA]

Hope everybody has fantastic visits to Liverpool and also do lots of research while you are here too.

Re the two different fathers on the marriage certificates - my gut feeling says that both of them may have been made up and I would suggest that you be prepared for never finding a father as he might have been illegitimate.

[Tina]

Hi folks
Perhaps the father was also Henry Andrew and used both first names?

A lot went from Germany to U.S as Jungklaus

I wonder if Hugh was in the Merch too? There's an H Junglas aboard S.S Bremen (fireman/stoker)
Lpool to Sydney via Durban arrived 27.7.1919 aged 24yrs.
There's a Hugh aboard the Mauretania 10 May 1919 arrived N.Y, 24 single

[Sjhb81]

Hi tina

Hugh junglas was Henry's son, he was a merchant seaman. He married Annie Scott in 1919 October I think. I have found his medal card and a photograph of him.

You could be right about Henry's father using both names but I can't find either on the early census' so I am thinking they did come to the UK from abroad, it's just finding out when

Thank you for the ship information I didn't have that in my records

[Tina]

You're welcome Sarah.
There are two people in Genes ReU with your family members in their trees.
If you are not a member, would you like me to contact them for you?
Cheers

[dickiesam]

Hi Sarah,
Could you post the census page references where you found the Junglas family in 1901 and earlier? Having a problem using just the street names. The reference will be in the format of RG? - Piece ???? - Folio ?? - Page ??.
TVM

[Sjhb81]

Hi Tina, I have already contacted them, they knew less than I did!

On the 1891 census the ref is RG12, 2996, 9, 22
On the 1901 census the ref is RG13, 3427, 55, 11
And th 1911 census ref is RG14PN22224 RG78PN1314 RD454 SD1 ED13 SN35, not sure if that is correct but it is what is given by findmypast.co.uk. The family are listed as Jungles.

[dickiesam]

On the 1891 census the ref is RG12, 2996, 9, 22
On the 1901 census the ref is RG13, 3427, 55, 11. The family are listed as Jungles.

Hi Sarah,
Thank you, I found them!
I noticed that on the 1891 Census Summary Page the surname appear to have been amended from Juncglas to Jungclas. Findmypast had it as Juncglas and a correction has been submitted. The Jungclas spelling may be the original one because if you google the latter without the c you get lots of hits on a famous brand of 'jungle' knife. If you google with the c you get lots of hits on surnames.

There are no Jung* births that match between 1855 and 1865 anywhere in England or Wales. It is possible Henry's birth was not registered because registration by parents was not mandatory back then. Up to the early 1870s it was the remit of the registrar to find/locate/register births for which he was paid by 'the each'. And he may not have been born in Liverpool or even in the UK. Liverpool may be the first place he remembers as a child and he has assumed it to be his birthplace. And there is the problem of where is he in 1871 when he would have been about 10?

EDIT to correct census year error.... I had put 1881 instead of 1891!

[Sjhb81]

Have you found them on the 1881 census? I haven't been able to trace the junglas on the 1881.

[dickiesam]

Have you found them on the 1881 census? I haven't been able to trace the junglas on the 1881.

Mea culpa Sarah,
My finger made a mistake! Hit the 8 instead of the 9 in my first line. The census with Jungclas was 1891, not 1881. Still looking for any Jung* etc candidates in 1881 and further back!

But I did find the first child's birth which BTW reinforces my thought about the 'original' surname.....
Birth: JUNGCLAS, Richard Andrew
Registration district: Toxteth Park, Lancashire
Year/qtr of registration: 1889 / Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 183.

If you don't have it already, it would be worth getting the certificate for additional snippets.

This will be their marriage:
Marriage: JUNGELAS, Henry Andrew
Registration district: Liverpool.
Year/qtr of registration: 1888 / Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 44
Henry Andrew Jungelas married either Agnes WILLIAMS or Catherine Ellen WILLIAMS.
[When Catherine died she was registered as Catherine Ellen, and there's probably a mis-transcription on the original document with an e being written instead of a c. Or is it the other way around? ]

[Hilary]

At what appears to be his second marriage in 1911 to Rane Royde he gives his age as 57 which would indicate a birth year around 1854.