Stillborn burial and Holy Cross Church deaths

[padjo1]

Hi Daisycakes

I know I am refering to later dates, my mum had a still born brother in 1950's much later I appreciate. I have the receipt from mum's sister who lived with my Grandma, showing the, still born birth of brother "David" as he was named, and showing the undertaker and how he was burried, in "Swansdown" clothing, mum says she can remember the day he was born, and she thinks she also remembers a Funeral car too.

As mentioned in previous posts, obtaining a death cetificate so long ago may not give any further information.

I am in the process of writing for application for copy records which relate to David, as I am aware in recent years only parents or direct brothers and sisters can apply for these records, on proof of their parents death, which I have. Unless they these records cannot be obtained.

I maybe wrong but later still births do not show in either birth or deaths records, other than a combined record, as the children where neither born alive or decesed. hence a Stillborn record, not published.

In addition mum is now 73 years young. My enquiry would be to whether David was buried in his own grave, buried in "swansdown with his own coffin and car", records may shown different.

We maybe wrong but Grandad, "Davids dad", earlier during the blitz 1941 went with his mother in law to identify her daughter and children killed under "Holy Cross Church", records, I have on another site, but if anybody can help, I believe buried in Anfield Cemetry as to where the plot maybe would be much appreciated. In addition can anybody clarify both areas, possible place of burial for David and the Coogan family

Regards

Michelle

[MaryA]

The records for Anfield are at the Record Office, as you have the exact date the entries shouldn't be too difficult to find and hopefully the grave numbers will be identified. There will be a map at the end of the microfilm (I remember from when I discovered the entry for my own grandfather's grave) but there is also one online http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... t=cemetery

A baby wrapped in Swansdown makes them sound so cared for doesn't it?

[padjo1]

Hi MaryA

Are you refering the the grave for the Finnegan/Coogan family killed under Holy Cross Church during the Blitz, is this where they would most likey be buried??

This was so sad, as my grandmothers sister took the children to the church, as did many others, her husband died very young and the church was bombed, and the home after the all clear was given was still standing.

With regard to baby "David", I have just dug out the receipt which my Auntie has recently given to me and it shows you should read things over and over.

The receipt for the funeral looks like it was done yesterday, the give away the type and date, and cost.

Based on the information from the receipt below, do you think he would be in his own grave, or in a "niche" as you have mentioned, this is what mum thinks may be the case.

" Funeral Expenses in connection with the Interment of the late Stillborn Child". At Anfield Cemetery 9th December 1952.

Selected English Elm Coffin, Specially made, Polished Natural.
Fully Mounted in Nickel Silvered Fitments.
Upholstered Complete in Silk and Swansdown interior.
Swansdown Catholic Robe.
Grave at Anfield Cemetery.
One Funeral Limousine.

Inclusive - £1- 10 shillings

Paid in full signed by undertaker 15th December 1952

You are so right with regard to the fact he must have been loved.

Final question, do you think he would have been baptised as well, as mentions Catholic Robe, if so, they lived in The parish of St Mary of the Angels - " The Friary", would you have any idea where the church records went when the church closed.

regards

Michelle

[dickiesam]

Re stillbirth registrations..
As far as I know they are included in the GRO Deaths Index since Sept qtr 1927.

Still births could not be registered before 1927.
See this from: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... /DG_175614
Stillbirth registration began on 1 July 1927 to help protect infant life. It gives parents the opportunity to have their child officially acknowledged and to give him or her names if they wish to. It is also an important source of historical and statistical information.

Stillbirths in England and Wales must normally be registered within 42 days of the stillbirth but cannot be registered more than 3 months after its occurrence.

[padjo1]

Hi DS

Thanks for your response, there is no birth or death record that I can see, l must admit I have been looking for him as David as mum say's he was named.

Will have another look later when I get back from work, need to leave shortly.

regards


Michelle

[dickiesam]

Hi Michelle,
There are 6 'unnamed' child deaths registered in 1952. 3 are in Liverpool but this is the only one in the right qtr..
UNKNOWN, Male (unnamed)
Registration district: Liverpool South
Year/qtr of registration: 1952 / Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:0
Volume no: 10D; Page no: 550.

What surname would have been entered at a birth registration?

[MaryA]

Hi MaryA

Are you refering the the grave for the Finnegan/Coogan family killed under Holy Cross Church during the Blitz, is this where they would most likey be buried??

My impression from your first post was that you believed them to have been buried in Anfield, it does seem likely.

As for baby David, you have the date of burial so will be able to check the grave number and cross check it to see who else is in the grave also.

Checking the Record Office archive I found
282 ANG St. Mary of the Angels Roman Catholic Church, Fox Street 1910-1941, records on microfilm which means that they are at the World Museum, William Brown Street, 2nd Floor - follow the footsteps.

[MaryA]

Both Daisycakes and your subjects deserves a topic to themselves so I've split the post.

[padjo1]

Thanks MaryA

Will PM Daisycakes and apologise for invading her space

regards

Michelle

[padjo1]

Hi DS

Thanks for your reply, the surname for David is "Patterson".

Thanks for the information you have given regarding your findings, something to get my teeth into.

regards

Michelle

[padjo1]

Thanks MaryA,

Something in my mind tells me Anfield was correct.

I think this would likely be a communal grave, so many of them killed at the same time, only one child was identified, by her mother, so therefore not sure if they would all be buried together anyway. Would like to think so, how sad if not the case.

Do you have to make an appointment to go in to see the records??

regards

Michelle

[Blue70]

Bombings in 1941

http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/ ... -1941.html


The May Blitz

http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/may-blitz.html


Blue

[padjo1]

Many thanks Blue

Your findings are really great, I can show these to mum now.

Included in the names are my Finnigan family, it was Michael who was the only one identified.

Have a few days off over Easter, so off to the records office, with mum to see we can find any grave information.

your help is much appreciated


regards

Michelle

[Hilary]

The family are all mentioned on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website at www.cwgc.org website.

[padjo1]

Hi Education Officer

Thanks you so much for the above information, it is great to see they are all acknowledged.

Sadly on a quick look, only back on line on Sunday now

Will have a more in depth look then.

Once again many thanks,

regards

Michelle