William Taylor of West Derby

[dickiesam]

Hi Val,
Re:

Once again Thank you to everyone, being here in the States makes it a little harder to come by information unless I spend money on the wrong certificates. The information I am getting from this site is outstanding and so typical of the people that I remember when I lived in Liverpool some 40 years ago.

It doesn't matter where you live, we all have problems with wrong certs even when we are certain we have the right person, it sometimes turns out we were wrong. At least with the help on this forum we can try to narrow down the room for error.

RE:

She actually saw him just one time when my brother was very young this would probably have been in 1944, she and my father where walking on Edge Lane and a gentleman doffed his hat to them.

That would indicate to me that William probably stayed in the Liverpool area and that would point to one of the two deaths registered in Liverpool North. I think if you specified William James as his forenames you have a better than 50/50 chance of getting the right one.

DS

[Tina]

Hi D.S
I also couldn't find Robina & Co in 91 or 1901.
If W.J re-married very soon, there's a marriage in the qtr after Robina's death in 1931 to a Beatrice Ashton
St Phillip's West Dby.
Long shot
Hi Blue
1938 Directory has a James Taylor corporation employee
12 Saville Road, off Broad Green Rd, Old Swan
No luck with any local Waterworks.

Tina

[Valerie]

Thanks so much. I think I will apply for the marriage certificate and see what is on it. If his occupation is working for the Corporation then I know I will have the right one. Might also know how old his second wife was and see if there is a possibility of other kids.

I would wonder why he would drop the William and go to James Taylor 1938. Broadgreen I know is in the vicinity of Edge Lane so it is possible that is also him on Saville Road. His wife perhaps could be Beatrice.

Once again, thank you . I will go ahead and apply for the marriage certificate first thing. Any other information would be most appreciated. Does anyone have any idea how I can get any information from the Liverpool Corporation? He worked there for a long time and according to what I heard from my mother he was supposed to have ended up being a Supervisor. Of course we can't always tell truth from fiction when things are passed down but at least it has been confirmed that he did work for them. Then perhaps I could concentrate on Robina, I remember Dad talking about an Auntie Kittie but don't ever remember meeting her. Would love to know if Robina had siblings, an Annie Connolly was a witness to their wedding but I couldn't find them on the Census at any time.

[Tina]

Hi Valerie
It's such a common surname, the Jas Taylor in 1938 could well be someone else, and the Corpy employed loads of people.
Perhaps when you order marriage cert, you stipulate his father was William James?
Mary will tell you how to go about it.

Tina

[Tina]

I found a William J 17 labr in the courts, Mason St, off Paddington, Edge Hill in 1901 mother Elizabeth wid, quite a few kids one called Kate 6 yrs (Kitty later on?)
I went back to 1891 and found:

Courts St. Andrews St, Abercromby
William Taylor 36?? cotton porter
Elizabeth 29, E.Ann (Eliza later) 11, Elizabeth 10 (Lily), Wm Jas 8
Mary Ellen 5, George 3, James 1yr all born Lpool.

TTFN
Tina

[MaryA]

Presumably you are ordering the certificates online at www.gro.gov.uk ? They used to have a section for reference checking, in other words you could specify that the parent's name was correct etc. but this seems to have been removed now, however the paragraph below seems to be useful.

If you are not aware of the required information and therefore cannot complete the required criteria you can telephone the Certificate Services Call Centre on +44 (0)300 123 1837 to place your order or write to Certificate Services at PO Box 2, Southport, Merseyside, PR8 2JD.

It's often worth thinking about requesting a certificate with a criteria, sometimes it saves a waste of money, although sometimes obviously ends in disappointment.

[padjo1]

Hi All

Can somebody remind me how you save an image.

I have a possible marriage record that matches the Robina baptism, it is for a Michael Conoly and Hannah Cox, and the similar thing the Godmother on Robina's baptism shows Godmother Maria McGrory, and this marriage has witness/bestman as James McGrory

Off to work now, but will be back later . MaryA know you sent me this before not too good on techie stuff

regards

Michelle

[MaryA]

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... =16&t=9817

Here you go.

[dickiesam]

Thought I'd post this while the iron is hot, and Tina's been busy I see, as well as others....

A rough analysis of possible 2nd marriages for William James Taylor.
The sighting of him in Edge Lane makes me assume William J remarried 'close to home'. I have looked at all the Liverpool marriages from 1931 to 1940 and then found the brides' probable YoB to find their age at marriage. Might help to eliminate the improbable. For comparison I have inserted Val's WJT's estimated age after his name.

Because women usually married close to home, the brides' birth years are from birth searches in the Liverpool area, 1885 to 1920. Where an reasonable choice could not be made, such as too many as in the 1940 marriage to May Matthews, a ? has been used to indicate doubt. It was assumed that none of the brides were widows, with the possible exception of Rachel M McArdle.

Marriages Sep 1931: Taylor, William J [@46] & Ashton, Beatrice May - [bn 1901 = 30] - W.Derby - 8b - 849.

Marriages Mar 1932: Taylor, William J [@47] & Williams, Stella May - [bn 1890 = 42] - W.Derby - 8b - 573.

Marriages Sep 1933: Taylor, William J [@48] & Donaldson, Margaret A - [bn 1915 = 18] - W. Derby - 8b - 1286

Marriages Sep 1937: Taylor, William J [@52] & Bate, Ethel May - [bn 1904 = 33] - Liverpool N. - 8b - 1458.

Marriages Dec 1937: Taylor, William J [@52] & McArdle, Rachel M - [bn 1911? = 26?] - Liverpool S. - 8b - 341.

Marriages Jun 1940: Taylor, William J [@55] & Oulton, Nancy E - [bn 1915 = 25] - Liverpool S. - 8b - 99.

Marriages Dec 1940:
Taylor, William J [@55] & Matthews, May - [bn ?] - Liverpool S. - 8b - 571.
Taylor, William J [@55] & Knowles, Mary Irene - [bn 1908 = 32] - Liverpool N. - 8b - 1490.

On the basis of ages the most compatible appears to be the 1932 marriage to Stella May Williams, only a year after Robina died. The 1931 marriage is questionable. Would he have married within 3 months of Robina's death? And he would hardly have married an 18 year old in 1933, not in the 1930s anyway. Because his children shunned him after the 2nd marriage it must have been fairly soon after Robina's passing, say within a couple of years.

Open for debate...

DS

[Valerie]

Hi, well from the timeline that the children of William dis-owned him it was right after Robina died. I have Robina's death certificate and it was her daughter Winifred that was there at the home when she died. If William had been there I would have assumed that he would have been on the certificate.

The other information I remember from my mother was that he married another lady that already had a couple of children herself and had a business like a corner shop or something. In this respect I would imagine that she was a mature person. It was insinuated that this was the reason for the marriage she was a person that had some money. Of course this is all hearsay passed down from my mother before she died

Tina, could you please tell me where you got the information regarding the Taylor family with the father a cotton porter as this is what was listed on the marriage certificate, was this on a Census if so what year was this? I do have access to an Ancestry site although I obviously not as good at using it as you people are here on this site.

Once again many thanks for all of the information. Anything else will be most appreciated.
Val.

[MaryA]

I think Tina might have gone to bed now, so to save you waiting I checked above and she found the entry in the 1891 census Reference RG12; Piece: 2913; Folio: 76; Page: 3 Hope you find it, search for Wm Jas born 1883.

[Valerie]

Thanks so much, went back and re-read the post but now that I have the reference I can get a copy. Sorry I forgot the time difference.

Not sure where to go to from here though. I've already requested information around that time and date that William has for his birth is not the same that is on his wedding certificate or for when 1911 Census when he was a Corporation Employee. Would you have any suggestions?

[MaryA]

You'll get used to the way the crew log on and off in shifts depending on where they live, don't worry about asking questions whatever time of day.

I think now the clue seems to be the father's name and occupation, so thinking the father who is a Cotton Porter in 1891 would be the right family. I wouldn't worry too much about the changes in birth year, it would appear to be only one or at most two years out depending on whichever document you look at. Many people were a little out in their ages, often claiming to be over 21 at marriage to save having to get permission, and on censuses you never know who gave the information, possibly a wife, lodger or even one of the other children since parents weren't necessarily always literate - another reason for them not knowing the exact age of the children.

I'm not too sure that you will find it easy to get hold of employment records, even for the Corporation, especially since we may not have any idea which depot he would have worked from, the place to enquire if any have been deposited would be the Record Office or they may be able to make suggestions.

I notice a big coincidence that padjo has previously highlighted - the address of 6 Lissart Street where he was living when he married. Even if he wasn't permanently living at this address, accommodation addresses were often used to save money - only one set of Banns to be read for example, and also a George Taylor, nephew of the Graham family was living in the household. This should certainly be investigated as I would imagine the address is occupied by somebody related to William.

[dickiesam]

From Mary A: Presumably you are ordering the certificates online at http://www.gro.gov.uk ? They used to have a section for reference checking, in other words you could specify that the parent's name was correct etc. but this seems to have been removed now, however the paragraph below seems to be useful.

There's a little 'work-around ruse' you can use to specify parents etc when ordering a cert. There is a 'tick box' asking if the GRO Index Reference is known or not. Tick the 'Not known' box even if you do know the GRO Index Reference. A new window will open allowing you to enter parents' names etc. The GRO will search at least one year either side of the specified year.

I have just done this 'work-around' when I wasn't sure if a child was the one I needed to know about. Takes a week or so longer but it works.

From Valerie: Hi, well from the timeline that the children of William dis-owned him it was right after Robina died. I have Robina's death certificate and it was her daughter Winifred that was there at the home when she died. If William had been there I would have assumed that he would have been on the certificate.

Is it possible that because William was not the informant on his wife's death registration, he had already left the family home some time, perhaps years, before? The 'hearsay' that he married a woman who already had children could well be true, and the children might have been his?

Following up that last thought I looked for Ashton nee Ashton births between 1920 and 1931 in Liverpool. I found only 17! Ye gods and little fishes, that's an awful lot.
So looked for Williams nee Ashton [1920 - 1931] and found just 3.

DS

[padjo1]

Help

Cannot get the images to upload, possibly me, I have done it before, trying to use photobucket, but it's not giving the option to copy and upload etc. Any other suggestions please??

regards

Michelle

[dickiesam]

Help

Cannot get the images to upload, possibly me, I have done it before, trying to use photobucket, but it's not giving the option to copy and upload etc. Any other suggestions please??
regards
Michelle

Hi Michelle,
This is the routine I follow to post images here....

1) Make sure the image scan is the best quality image you can manage and is a reasonable size. If the image is of a complete page and your 'query' is about only part of it, if you can you should crop the image to remove the 'unnecessary bits'. If you don't have an image cropping utility you can use the one on the Photobucket site.

2) Paste http://photobucket.com/ into your browser and join the site. This is a free image hosting website.

3) Follow the onscreen instruction to upload your picture to the site. Save the picture to your 'album'. When you run the mouse over the picture a small drop-down menu will appear. Left-click on the IMG Code in that menu. A yellow box flashes up, with Copied written in it.

4) Now go to the 'Post a reply' box on the forum topic where you want show your photo. Write your message then page down two or three lines. Place the cursor at the left of the message window, right-click the mouse and select Paste. This will paste the code that you copied from Photobucket into your message. The picture will not immediately appear. It only comes up when you Preview, or Submit to send the message to the forum topic.

5) Click 'Preview' to see your image before you submit your message.

Good luck,

DS

[padjo1]

Hi DS

Thanks for your reply, I am already registered with photobucket, but when I click on the green upload button nothing happens, am I correct in doing this, if I am it refuses to do anything at all??

regards

Michelle

[dickiesam]

Hi Michelle,
If you are already registered on the site, when you click the small green Upload button a window should appear asking you to log on. You have to log on before you can continue with the upload. It just worked fine for me. If that isn't working for you try registering another 'account'.

DS

[padjo1]

Hi DS

Tried to register again, it knows my details, so tried the other half, and same has happened, shut down the computer, ( old ways always the best) no joy, when logged on, pressing the download green button the it gives another green box "upload photos/videos. and nothing happens.

I will just post the information, but would have been good to show it, if there is a connection it may have helped everybody, to assist Valerie

regards, and thanks for your help

Michelle

[padjo1]

Off to bed, early work tomorrow, any suggestions appreciated. Thinking, if I post the information, a nice kind fellow member maybe able to upload the copies, for Valerie to look at.

regards

Night all

Michelle