Amelia Hughes help needed

[crossl]

Thanks blue, was hoping her conviction details would give some information.

Thanks Colette for your insight. I'm having same thoughts as you reg. her siblings mentioned in her tasmanian records. You're saying that Amelia's younger siblings might be in a home? I did find a Charlotte Hughes in the 1841 census who was 15 and she must have been in a home as there were about 100 other household members in that residence on HOWARD STREET. Don't know whether this Charlotte is the Chalotte Amelia Hughes born on June 26, 1826.

Who is the Elizabeth Eden you mention?

Frank

[crossl]

Alison, you mentioned that Richard Hughes and Charlotte had another child Richard who was baptised in 1828. Where di you find this information, I can't seem to find it myself?

Thanks, Frank

[Blue70]

Liverpool Record Office:-

Ref No: 347 QUA
Title: Borough of Liverpool Court of Quarter Sessions
Date: 1724-1956

Description

1. Indictment files, 442 volumes, 1836-1929 (1900, 1902, 1908-1925 missing)

*347 QUA/1/75A contains a handwritten account of the Quarter Sessions held between 3 Apr 1848 and 16 Dec 1850. Includes details of jurors, defendant's name, details of offence and sentence and in some instances the appeals, to the session commencing 21 Oct 1850. The entry for 16 Dec 1850 contains only the preliminary statement.

2. Calendars of prisoners, 233 volumes, 1844-1956

3. Calendars of prisoners (Assizes), 9 volumes, 1882-1956

4. Early records, 2 volumes, 1724-1844

5. Tables of Fees for the Clerk of the Peace, 6 documents, 1859-1880

6. Deposition books, 6 volumes, 1841-1842


Blue

[MaryA]

Search the Archives

[colette]

Hi if this is the correct Charlotte Amelia Hughes at Queen Street 1841..then she is just going by Amelia...there is a Richard Hughes born c 1830 at the Bluecoat Hospital born Lancs in 1841..

There is also a Josh Hughes born c 1826 Lancs hes a Mariner living at Bixteth Street right by Queens Street in 1841 hes 15 years old..these are just possibilities..

Do we know the names of the children Amelia had before she married William Glover ?? maybe some clues to family..I did notice on someones tree on Ancestry not sure if its yours the document about Amelia's ship record it says she had tatoos on her arm (JB, HM, BC, JW on right arm, Hellow on left arm) could these be other men she had been with JB must be John Brown...

Col

[Blue70]

Would an Australian/Tasmanian marriage record include a father's name? Just looking at the process of obtaining records from Tasmania it looks complicated and expensive but if the record has a father's name it would be helpful:-

http://www.justice.tas.gov.au/bdm/family_history


Blue

[colette]

Hi all

This might be something..1841 census Sussex Street Toxteth

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 567; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Toxteth Park; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 28; Folio: 47; Page: 2; Line: 9; GSU roll: 438719.

John Brown 20 b Lancs cannot make out his occupation
Amelia Brown age 15 b Lancs

Then next door there is a Jones family and the house after that another Jones family with an Alice Mary aged 15 b Lancs


Col xx

[crossl]

Hi Colette, you're finding great stuff.

The Josh Hughes name is interesting as on her convict record it says that she has 3 brothers and 1 sister--John, Elisha, Josh and Anne
Have not been able to find them

The tree with the tattoes is the same Amelia as her convict records mentions the same tattoes. Can yo give me info on the tree, I don't have a subscription to Ancestry.

The John Brown is also mentioned as being the "father of any children". I assumed that meant that he was the father of Charlotte - the 19 mth old girl she took to Tasmania.
You say that the 1841 census mentions an Amelia Hughes living with John Brown? Can you show me the entry?

As for the children she had while in prison:
Ellen Hughes 1846
Agnes Hughes 1848 She is the line I'm researching.
Alice Ann Hughes 1850
no mention of any father.

Frank

[Alison C]

Hello

Here is the baptism for Richard Jr from the Lancashire OPC:

Baptisms: 27 Jan 1828 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Richard Hughes - son of Richard Hughes & Charlotte
Abode: Pownall Square
Occupation: Mariner
Baptised by: R. Cardwell
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1828, Page 97, Entry 776
Source: LDS Film 1656373

[Alison C]

...and here's a possible Richard & Charlotte marriage from Family Search:

groom's name: Richard Hughes
bride's name: Charlotte Owens
marriage date: 1825
marriage place: Saint Thomas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
indexing project (batch) number: M16116-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1068943

Alison

[colette]

Hi

The Tree on Ancestry only has the same info you have..I am wondering about all her Tattoos of Initials JB being one could be John Brown..I recon she has been with him a while and the 1841 at Sussex Street Toxteth might well be them and shes using the brown surname.

The Alice Mary Jones same age living next door but one makes this stronger..

Wondering why they would ask her what her siblings names were seems odd doesn't it and not to ask who her parents were..

Also does it say on her record that she was born in Liverpool or are we going from where she was tried & sentenced ??

col

[Blue70]

Thanks for your reply Mary. I have not actually found her marriage certificate. On the Colonial Tasmanian Convict Archives I found that she married a William Glover in Port Cygnet, Tasmania in 1857. She had 4 children:

1-Henry Glover 1856 (got a bit of an early start)
2-Jane Glover 1858
3-F Glover 1861
4-Alice Glover 1866

These are in addition to the 3 she had while serving time and the one girl, 19 mths old Charlotte, which she brought with her on the boat. I found out from Clive Keane that Charlotte died at about 2 years old shortly after arriving in Tasmania.

I have not found a death record either.

Frank

Hi Frank,

I've been looking at the Tasmania Heritage records. If anyone wants to look at the original images here's the link:-

http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11

for the convict records there are 3/4 images featuring Amelia:-

CON41-1-1_00068_L = general record (Amelia is on image 68)
CON19-1-4_00020_L = physical description (Amelia is on image 20)
CON15-1-2_00278_L = includes relative info (Amelia is on image 278)
CON15-1-2_00279_L = includes relative info (Amelia is on image 279)

There is a note on the Colonial Tasmanian Family Links Database information about Amelia's marriage to William Glover. It says:-

"... the date given for a marriage is derived from the date of the first identified birth of a child to the two people and therefore may not be accurate. In such cases the place is derived in the same way and may not be accurate."

So this marriage information does not come from a totally reliable source. You can only really establish her marriage details through requesting a search and obtaining her marriage record if it exists.


Blue

[crossl]

Thanks Blue,
I'll re-examine those records. I really don't know whether an actual marriage record exits. I haven't been able to find it online. Maybe I'll get someone in Tasmania to look for it.

Colette,
the only place I have found that she was born in Liverpool is on the FOUNDERS SURVIVORS website. I really don't have anything concrete yet but digging. I just can't seem to pinpoint her family in Liverpool although I believe she is from there.

ALISON,
thanks for your information. Richard and Charlotte may well be her parents. Names and ages seem right but nothing concrete yet.

Frank

[Blue70]

I noticed on the Tasmanian records she was C of E so that's something to remember when looking for a Liverpool baptism. It could indicate that her ancestry may have been Welsh rather than Irish. Hughes is both a Welsh and Irish surname. Irish Hughes people would be more likely RC. The Welsh have been in Liverpool longer than the Irish and their names are difficult to research.

The marriage is not available online you have to apply to Tasmania for a search. It looks complicated and expensive if you have any local contacts who are researching the same line it would be a good idea to share the work and expense in order to get that record. If it exists it will hopefully tell you Amelia's father's name.

Blue

[crossl]

Hi Blue, thanks for your time and assistance.

I've not run accross the Church of England reference that you mention. Where were you able to see that entry? As you say it would mean probably searching C of E parishes for her birth then, and her possibly being Welsh descent.

Frank

[Blue70]

Hi Frank

The extract below is from image 279 of the CON 15 records. The column heads are as follows:-

Children/Religion/Read or Write/Relations-Apprenticeship-Where last residing

It's noticeable that it doesn't give a father's name like the entry above but gives brothers' names. John Brown may be the person she was last living with.






Blue

[crossl]

Thanks Blue, I had not found that particular document. I'll find it and examine it.

There seems to be a lot of Hughes in the C of E parish records. Looks like they may be of Welsh backgound then? I assume if they were from Ireland they would be Roman Catholic?

Frank

[Blue70]

C of E or protestant background with most Welsh sounding surnames. Amelia's friend Alice Jones (another Welsh surname) who was sentenced for the same offence was transported to Tasmania on the Woodbridge and arrived there on Christmas Day 1843. It says on her record that her father was called Andrew, she had a brother called William and two sisters, Charlotte and Elizabeth. She was also C of E. She was freed in 1850.

Blue

[Hilary]

There's an Elisha Hughes in Sidney street Liverpool in the 1851 census. He's 15 and not born in the county.

[crossl]

Colette, I can't seem to find Josh Hughes in the 1841 census. Can you give all the household info?

Hilary, can you give me all the info on Elisha Hughes in the 1851 census? I can't see him either.

Thanks, Frank