JOHN WILLIAM DAVIES

Post by **Sue H** » 01 Feb 2012 14:45

Sorry I cant find previous thread abut John William Davies and Angnes Longley Taylor, to tie this up with but here goes

Well Death certificate arrived for John William Davies goes as follows

24th December 1915 West Derby Union Infirmary aged 37
VOCALIST
of 48 Thames Street
Cause of death 1 Carcinoma of the rectum, 2 Interstinal obstruction
Signed by Sara Jones (mother) 48 Thames street.

was West Derby Union the work house, was it also the local hospital?

Someone found records of
John William Davies
Residence: Liverpool
Death Date: 24 Dec 1915
Death Location: Home
Enlistment Location: Liverpool
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's (Liverpool Regiment)
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Number: 5004
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Home

This cant be him now can it??

I think this has put the damper on the marriage to Agnes Longley Davies as well as the date of birth for him there is 1873, not 1987......would make him 18. nto 23 as he states on it

The fathers name on the marriage certificate is John William Davies.......but on John William's birth certificate in 1878 the father's name is William Davies.....although both have the occupation of Plumber.
Knowing that nan lied on her marriage certificate means he could have done the same, couldnt he

The address on the marriage certificate is 23 Wellington Grove and John's occupation is painter (one which he seems to use in between his musical job!!!)

I have looked for a marriage again for him and Nora Prendergast but can find nothing.

Everything else fits in his birth mother, father, step father brother and their lives and children. Nan and Nora birth, marriage certificates all fit in as well

Has anyone any advise of any other avenues I can explore to find out more. John William Davies's missing years will be the death of me!!!!

Post by **dickiesam** » 01 Feb 2012 15:18

Hi Sue,
Re:

was West Derby Union the work house, was it also the local hospital?

The infirmary was attached to the workhouse. Almost every workhouse had an infirmary added to it because realistically they were the only places where the inmates, the poor and working class could get treatment.

I don't think that CWGC entry for John William Davies of the King's (Liverpool Regiment is the same person because a carcinoma [cancer] would hardly be classed as a fatal war wound. However, there is a Grave Reference for LIVERPOOL (TOXTETH PARK) CEMETERY - XI. C.E. 149.
There's info about the War Graves in the cemetery here:
http://www.cwgc.org/
DS

02/02/12 Edited to amend link!

Post by **Alison C** » 01 Feb 2012 15:56

Hi Sue,

Apologies - I mean to post this sooner. I had a quick look at John William Davies' Military Record on Ancestry last weekend (whilst they were free to view!) and it is the same person.

I couldn't make out a lot of the details. However, the Military Records showed he enlisted in July 1915 - he spent his entire 6 months service at "Home" (ie. he was not posted abroad). His next of kin was given as his mother Sara Jones - not Norah

However, there was a handwritten note in the top left corner of the first page which said

Born Liverpool
36 yrs 6(?) m
GYMNAST (!!!)
Wife

So we have a singing, dancing, gymnastic painter

I wonder if the fact he wasn't posted abroad was because he became ill with cancer so soon after enlisting? Perhaps he was expected to recover and so remained officially in the army?

Alison

Post by **dickiesam** » 01 Feb 2012 16:16

Another thought....
If this is the same person why is his occupation recorded as Vocalist if he was still an enlisted soldier? And according to the CWGC a death from 'Natural causes' is not classed as death as a result of war injuries. A puzzle!

DS

Post by **daggers** » 01 Feb 2012 18:05

Pte J W Davies is listed among members of the Liverpool Scottish (otherwise 10th Battalion, King's Liverpool Regiment) who died during WW1. The details shown in their history 'Bravest of Hearts' are the same as in Sue's post earlier today, probably taken from the official publication 'Soldiers died in the Great War'. Almost certainly he did not serve overseas.
D

Post by **Sue H** » 01 Feb 2012 19:38

oh dear what a bunch my lot were!!

So it looks like Norah did leave him and maybe all the children to go off and marry Harry Coventry (the toy boy).......dont suppose she would have got the widows war pension seeing she wasnt married!!

I know he is buried with other members of his family in Toxteth, you kind people found him there.

So do you think that even with the minor discrepancies I can include Agnes Longley Taylor as his wife.

What a story, how I wish I could find someone alive in his family to tell me more

So I have a soldier, singing, dancing, gymnastic painter of a great grandfather.............and an umarried great grandmother who did a runner.....no wonder nan called Sara West (Davies) Jones mum

Post by **Alison C** » 01 Feb 2012 21:38

Hi Sue,

I'm afraid I might be about to throw a spanner (or two) in the works - sorry!

One other thing I noticed on JW's enlistment record was that his signature didn't match that of the John William who married Agnes Longley Taylor as shown on their marriage certificate!!

Also, Norah Biggs married Harry Coventry in Q1 1911 - yet in the 1911 census we have Nora Davies living in Liverpool with John William who was "away from home" on census night

Norah is certainly a mysterious one!

Alison

Post by **simone** » 01 Feb 2012 21:50

blimey what a palaver

I though we had pretty much established that Norah Prendergast/Biggs/ Coventry wasn't the same Norah

previous post here

http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... c&start=30

Post by **Alison C** » 01 Feb 2012 21:55

Quick recap on previous threads:

Jessie May Davies - born 18 Dec 1901 - baptised as West - parents John William and Norah

Jane Helen Davies - born 24 March 1903 - parents John William Davies and Norah (Died 1904)

Norah Davies (Norah May??) b about 1904

Sara Davies - born 7 April 1908 - parents John William Davies and Norah Prendergast

1911 Census:
RG14; Piece: 22272
88 Solway St, Toxteth Park

John William 38 Painter John is crossed out with comment 'travelling'
Norah 31 machinist own making, employer
Norah 7
Sarah 3

Census says they had 5 children - 3 living (Jessie, Norah & Sarah), 2 died ( Jane & ???)

John William dies in 1915.

Post by **simone** » 01 Feb 2012 22:06

do you reckon these signatures are the same Norah

look pretty similar don't they.... double lives everyone

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 01 Feb 2012 22:11

I can't remember, did we establish who the Taylor's in the house were

nothing to do with Agnes Longley Taylor are they

wouldn't surprise me

added later: think this was the Taylor/Dolan marriage I looked at

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 01 Feb 2012 22:45

Sue H wrote: oh dear what a bunch my lot were!!

So I have a soldier, singing, dancing, gymnastic painter of a great grandfather.............

Sue, are you sure his name wasn't Walter Mitty

Post by **simone** » 02 Feb 2012 08:16

re witnesse on marriage: can't see Geoffrey or Beatrice Prendergast anywhere

are they using another name

Post by **Sue H** » 02 Feb 2012 09:34

Yes I thought the signatures of Norah all looked the same. I found a death for Edward Albert Biggs

Edward Albert Biggs
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1906
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: Wirral
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 255 (click to see others on page)

So the marriage to Harry Coventry was correct she was a widow......but with 3 living children to her name from someone else!!

Albert Biggs
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: New Ferry, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Lower Bebington
Ecclesiastical parish: New Ferry St Mark
Town: New Ferry
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Norah was a visitor here in 1901

I have my nans and norahs birth certificates now

23 April 1904 13 holden street
NORAH
Father JOHN WILLIAM DAVIES
mother NORAH DAVIES FORMERLY PRENDERGAST
JWD - HOUSE PAINTER
NORAH DAVIES (MOTHER) 33 Lovat Street, West Derby
Reg 2nd June 1904

would there be a reason, she went to a different address to have Norah

7th April 1908 33 Eden Street Liverpool
SARA
father JOHN WILLIAM DAVIES
mother formerly PREDERGAST
jwd - house painter
NORAH DAVIES (MOTHER) 33 EDEN STREET TOXTETH PARK
reg 20th may 1908

both signatures for Norah Davies are exactly the same as on the documents below.

On Nan (Sara) and grandads marriage certificate John William Davies is deceased and was a Proffesional Dancer

On Nora's to Sydney Usher he was a painter and decorator

due you want me to post them as pictures

I think I too ruled out Agnes Longley Taylor, because of the different fathers names and age for John William Davies. But Norah Prendergast seems to be the same one thro out if signatures are any thing to go by.

Jessie although my auntie know nothing of the family but I think I might send for ber birth certificate on the basis that she seems to fit in here

sorry folk I am turning into the bad penny!!

Post by **Sue H** » 02 Feb 2012 10:21

Norah Prendergast
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Prendergast
Mother's name: Jane Prendergast
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Jeffrey Prendergast
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Prendergast
Mother's name: Jane Prendergast
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Found these two this morning!!!!!!!! Jeffrey spelt different as witness tho

Post by **MaryA** » 02 Feb 2012 10:26

What a palaver is right, all the ins and outs!!

In case you wanted to check the Toxteth Park entries, the link that DS gave above doesn't seem to want to work so use the CWGC Cemetery Search page http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery.aspx

Post by **Alison C** » 02 Feb 2012 12:17

Hello all,

Here are a few more details on the Prendergasts:

1881 census:
44 Reading Street, Kirkdale
The National Archives Reference: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3683 / 52
Page Number: 26

Head James Pender M 39 (shoemaker, born Ireland)
Spouse Jane Pender F 36
Child Henry Pender M 15
Child Eliza Pender F 12
Child James Pender M 10
Child Emma Pender F 7
Child Norah Pender F 1

Marriage: 11 Dec 1895 St Bridget, Wavertree, Lancashire, England
George Slader Burgess - 36 Mariner Bachelor of 44 Picton Rd
Eliza Prendergast - 27 Spinster of 44 Picton Rd
Groom's Father: Richard Burgess, Deceased
Bride's Father: James Prendergast, Cordwainer
Witness: James Prendergast; Emma Prendergast; James Clark
Married by Banns by: T. S. Lea Curate
Register: Marriages 1872 - 1902, Page 123, Entry 245
Source: LDS Film 2147908

Marriage: 22 Dec 1897 St Bridget, Wavertree, Lancashire, England
Harry Seymour Pughe - 23 Coachman Bachelor of 44 Picton Rd
Emma Prendergast - 24 Spinster of 44 Picton Rd
Groom's Father: John Pelham Pughe, Tailor
Bride's Father: James Prendergast, Bootmaker
Witness: Henry Prendergast; Nellie Guntrip
Married by Banns by: T. S. Lea Curate
Register: Marriages 1872 - 1902, Page 149, Entry 297
Source: LDS Film 2147908

Marriages Dec 1906

PRENDERGAST Geoffrey Birkenhead 8a 943
STEVENSON Beatrice Sushannah Birkenhead 8a 943

Alison

Post by **dickiesam** » 02 Feb 2012 15:21

In case you wanted to check the Toxteth Park entries, the link that DS gave above doesn't seem to want to work so use the CWGC Cemetery Search page http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery.aspx
_________________
MaryA 6532

Fixed!

DS

Post by **simone** » 02 Feb 2012 15:31

Hi Sue

Geoffrey Prendergast married Beatrice Susannah Stevenson in Dec q 1906 at Birkenhead

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 02 Feb 2012 15:37

Sorry Alison... you already found that didn't you

In 1901 James and Jane are at Picton Road, Liverpool. They have a grandaughter Lily, age 3, living with them
RG13; Piece: 3503; Folio: 36; Page: 2.

In 1871 they are in Liscard?
an ancestry member has submitted a correction for this recod

James Mendergart 28 b Ireland bootmaker
Jane Mendergart 25 b Warwick, Whitmarsh?
Harry Mendergart 5b New Ferry
Eliza Mendergart 2 Birkenhead
James Mendergart 3 Monthsb New Brighton
Eliza Mendergart 26 sister, b Ireland Clouenel?

1891 10 Sandy Street, Toxteth Park
RG12; Piece: 2924; Folio 123; Page 42
James Prendergast 48
Jane Prendergast 45
Henry Prendergast 25
Norah Prendergast 11
Jeffrey Prendergast 7