Eileen Hill born March 1917 Rockferry

Post by **jennywilkinson** » 17 Jan 2012 20:31

I am desperate to find my Grandmothers birth certificate. I have previously sent for certificates and been unsucessful! She was born March 1917 in Rockferry and her Father was Ernest. I have gained this information from her marriage certificates (though she had lied about her age on the first!) and death cert. Can anyone help? Any ideas? I have paid for membership with Ancestry.com with no sucess!
Any advice would be great
Jenny

Post by **Hilary** » 17 Jan 2012 21:22

WElcome to our forum.

How do you know where she was born? Also where does the date of birth come from?

What was given as Ernest's occupation on Eileen's marriage certificate. When and where did she marry?

Did grandmother have any brothers and sisters?

Post by **jennywilkinson** » 17 Jan 2012 22:42

I have her death certificate which says her dob was 03/03/1917 dod 28/02/1996. On this death cert it says she was born in Rock Ferry. She has 2 marriage certs, the first to my Grandad in 1935 (John Borrows which says she was 21 and her father as Ernest a marine fireman. The wedding was in Seaforth, he was at the barracks and she worked there I believe. The 2nd marriage was to Sotirakis Georgiou Perdikos in 1947 in St Pancras. It says she is 30, divorced wife of John Borrows and father Ernest Hill retired ships fireman. She had 2 children to John, my dad Albert and his Sister Jacqueline and a son to her 2nd husband Paul. I have no idea if she had any brothers or sisters, it is quite a sad story really, she left when my father was very small and he has no memories of her. By the time we had any information she had died and then when we discovered Paul, he had no information and she had not raised him either! He has since passed away too so have no-one else to ask!!! hope you can help!
thank you
Jenny

Post by **dickiesam** » 17 Jan 2012 23:35

Hi Jenny,
I am fairly sure Eileen was not born in Rock Ferry, or Cheshire for that matter given the date you posted. The only female Hill with an initial E born in that part of Cheshire between 1916 and 1918 was this one:
Birth: HILL, Lorna E
Registration District: Birkenhead, Cheshire.
Year/qtr of Registration: 1916 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Titherley
Volume No: 8A; Page No: 877.

I can't find a marriage of her father Ernest Hill to a Titherley so have ruled out the above birth.

There are the following births in Liverpool, just over the water, in the same period:
HILL, Eileen - Lancashire, Toxteth Park - 1917 [maiden name Duckers]
HILL, Eileen M - Lancashire, West Derby - 1917 [maiden name Nolan]
HILL, Eileen L - Lancashire, West Derby - 1918
HILL, Eileen M - Lancashire, West Derby - 1918

Looking at the 2 1917 births, an Ernest Hill married an Agnes Duckers....
Marriages Jun 1907 - Liverpool - 8b - 125: DUCKERS, Agnes Jane and Hill, Ernest.

Agnes Jane Duckers was born in Birkenhead..
1901 census:
Parents:
DUCKERS, James - Head - Md - 42 - 1859 - Gas Wks Labourer - Tatenall, Chester, Cheshire.
DUCKERS, Jane - Wife - 36 - 1865 - Birkenhead, Cheshire.
There are 2 older siblings, then...
DUCKERS, Agnes J - Dtr - 15 - 1886 - Soap Wrapper - Birkenhead.
Then 6 younger siblings.
Address: 7 Albert Place, Birkenhead.
RG113 - Piece:3396 - Folio:83 - Page:58.

Albert Place was in the parish of Tranmere, 'next door' to Rock Ferry.
I think it is quite possible your Eileen thought she was born in Birkenhead, if she was raised there from a very early age. 10 years later the family are at 110 Brook Street, Birkenhead, and the mother Jane is a widow.

Perhaps the crew will have thoughts on my meanderings...?

DS

Edit to add for Jenny's benefit.... The birth date and the date of the birth registration are rarely the same. Because the Eileen was apparently born towards the end of the March qtr, she may not have been registered until the following qtr, which would fit for the Toxteth birth.

Post by **CaroleW** » 18 Jan 2012 00:18

Hi

Theodore E Hill married Lillian G Titherley in 1914 in Birkenhead

Births March qtr 1882
Theodore Ernest Hill Birkenhead 8a 522

He was a municipal clerk in the last available census so can be ruled out

Post by **Barbara B** » 18 Jan 2012 10:05

The marriage of Ernest and Agnes took place at Our Lady and St Nicholas. You can view the certificate on Anc***. Father James - in both cases!
There also is a public tree which gives some further detail on Agnes Jane.
Hope this helps.
Barbara

Post by **Blue70** » 18 Jan 2012 11:51

Information about divorce records:-

http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/p ... php?t=7703

Blue

Post by **dickiesam** » 18 Jan 2012 12:05

Barbara B wrote:The marriage of Ernest and Agnes took place at Our Lady and St Nicholas. You can view the certificate on Anc***. Father James - in both cases!
There also is a public tree which gives some further detail on Agnes Jane.
Hope this helps.
Barbara

Hi Barbara,
Haven't got Ancestry, so could you post Ernest's age from that marriage?

DS

Post by **dickiesam** » 18 Jan 2012 12:23

The Hill nee Ducker family may have moved around a bit. Even that unusual surname combination threw up these 'Merseyside' births, 1912 to 1925:

HILL, Ernest - Cheshire, Birkenhead - 1912.
HILL, Thomas W - Cheshire, Birkenhead - 1914
HILL, Annie M - Lancashire, West Derby - 1917
HILL, Eileen - Lancashire, Toxteth Park - 1917.
HILL, Margaret - Lancashire, Toxteth Park - 1919.
HILL, Kathleen - Lancashire, Liverpool - 1923.
HILL, John - Cheshire, Birkenhead - 1925

The family may have lived in Birkenhead until shortly before the Toxteth 1917 birth, and then moved back. Wonder if any of the forenames ring bells for Jenny... gt.aunts/uncles, marriage cert witnesses, etc?

DS

Post by **simone** » 18 Jan 2012 13:01

Post by **jennywilkinson** » 18 Jan 2012 13:29

I can't believe how helpful you all are!!! Thankyou so much, I will get to work on this later and let you know what I come up with.

Post by **simone** » 18 Jan 2012 14:32

just adding these 2 that took place on same day, 11/11,later that year in 1907..

nb.. William Ward and Fanny Duckers were witnesses on Hill/Duckers marriage...
notice the occupations

Post by **dickiesam** » 18 Jan 2012 14:47

Hi Simone,
Both Fanny and Harriett Duckers are listed in 1901 as siblings of Agnes Jane. The occupation of stoker for the Duckers girls' father James, could have something to do with Agnes' husband Ernest also becoming a stoker/fireman in later life.

DS

Post by **Barbara B** » 18 Jan 2012 15:48

Must have been a hectic year for the Duckers! Hope the brides' father didn't have to pay for everything in those days otherwise he'd have had to put in a bit of extra stoking!
Barbara

Post by **simone** » 18 Jan 2012 16:04

Yep, that's just what I thought Brian

Barbara, yes

but I suppose a joint wedding =1reception

Post by **jennywilkinson** » 18 Jan 2012 21:26

Sent for the Duckers certificate as a Priority so will hopefully be here Friday! Keeping everything crossed!!!

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Jan 2012 21:53

I'll have a look in Liverpool directories on Friday for an Ernest Hill marine fireman or labourer living either side of the Mersey at the relevant time.

Post by **Tina** » 19 Jan 2012 11:35

Hiya
In Gores/Kellys Directory for 1938 I've found an
Ernest Lorenzo Hill draughtsman at
15 Highfield Grove Rock Ferry.

Tina

Post by **Hilary** » 19 Jan 2012 21:35

Ernest Lorenzo Hill was born Sept Q 1879 West Derby Reg District.

He appears to have died June Q 1958 death registered Wirral Reg District.

Post by **Hilary** » 20 Jan 2012 17:21

The 1916, 1918 and 1921 directories only had the following Ernest Hills listed

Ernest Lorenzo Hill watchmaker (T H & Sons) 15 Highfield Grove Rock Ferry

Ernest Hill telegraphist 18 Eastcroft Road Seacombe.

Both were in all 3 directories.