Railway Employees - Liverpool

Post by **Bella** » 12 Nov 2011 23:51

My grandfather is recorded on census (1901 & 1911) and marriage certs as being a 'carter' and 'railway worker'.

He was born and lived in Liverpool.

On his retirement he received a watch with the following inscription

"Presented to J Marshall, by his colleagues at Canada Dock LMS on his retirement. January 1934".

Can anyone help me with this. What is LMS? Was Canada Dock a commercial dock? What kind of work would he have carried out? Where would I find possible employee records?

I would be very grateful for any help?

Post by **daggers** » 13 Nov 2011 09:54

LMS: London, Midland & Scottish Railway was one of the four large companies formed in 1923 from many smaller railway companies, before nationalisation in about 1945 brought them into British Railways and then British Rail.
Its area was as it states and was the main line passenger operator from Liverpool to Euston, Scotland etc. It also had huge amounts of goods traffic, including to and from many of the old docks. There were sidings at places like Edge Hill where goods trains were broken down into consignments to different parts of the docks, and other depots where rail waggons were unloaded into horse-drawn carts, driven by carters, for onward distribution.

Canada Dock would be one of many operating areas. The 'Kirkdale' sheet of the Godfrey series of old maps [Lancashire sheets 106.5 & 106.6] will give you an idea of the network of railway lines at Canada Dock Goods Station [which was then, in 1906, run by London & North Western Railway] and Sandon & Canada Goods Station [Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway.]

D

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 12:26

Thank you so very much D. I am so grateful for your reply.

Do you have any idea were I might be able to find out a bit more about my grandfathers employment or if it is possible to locate employee records for railway staff. I imagine he worked on the railways for a long time.

He died, having left Liverpool, possibly for Nottingham and I would like to see if I could get further information for him from pension records - sadly, I have no idea where my grandfather is buried or no idea of exactly where he went to after he left Liverpool (circa late 1930 or early 1940's).

Post by **daggers** » 13 Nov 2011 12:43

Sorry but I do not know about railway employee records. There may be something at the National Railway Museum in York.
D

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 12:47

Thanks again for your reply.
You give me quite a bit to work on and you never know were it will lead me to.
Thank you so much D.
Regards for now.

Post by **Hilary** » 13 Nov 2011 12:51

Do you have your grandfather's birth certificate? If you have it may be possible to find some possible death dates.

He probably appears in a Liverpool directory at his home address in 1934 so you could track through the directories for when he disapearsand then l;ook for a death either here or in Nottingham.

What about your grandmother do you know when and where she died?

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 13:07

Hi Hilary

I have my grandfather's marriage certificates (2 marriages) and Census records (with his first family).

My grandmother and grandfather (married 1919) separated some years before he died and my grandmother is not buried with him. I am still looking for some confirmation that he did actually move to the Nottingham area in the late 1930's or early 40's - my Mum and her siblings gave me this information , but were not really sure of were he went to. (Mum and her siblings are all sadly now passed on)

The directories for Liverpool sound like a very good idea, where would I be able to get hold of them or could someone look them up for me?

Would there be similar directories for Nottingham?

Thank you for your help

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Nov 2011 16:31

There will be directories for Nottingham but you would need to enquire with the Nottingham Record Office, or a similar forum to this for the location.

Some of our members hold copies of various years, there is a general list of holdings here.

http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=6906

Hopefully you have his full name and date of birth which also might help with a death. Also an idea of which area of Liverpool he was living in might be advantageous.

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 18:00

Thank you so very much Mary, you have all been so kind.

I will certainly follow up on the directories.

Thank you again.

Regards Bella

Post by **Hilary** » 13 Nov 2011 18:07

I imagine he would have been 65 on retirement so that would make him born about 1868/9 does that tie in with the ages on census returns?

What was his name and was he born in Liverpool according to the census details you have?

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 18:41

Hi again Hilary

1881 Census - aged 12 - Eldon Street, Eldon Court
1895 First Marriage - aged 24 - Burlington Street
1901 Census - aged 31 - Penrhyn Street
1911 Census - aged 43 - Webster Street (I Think)
1919 Second Marriage (to my grandmother) - aged 47 - Webster Street

The family also lived in Adlington Street around 1905 (child's baptism record)

All census indicate that he was born in Liverpool and all records would vary his birth year between 1868 to 1872. His name was John Marshall son of Robert Marshall.

Regards Bella

Post by **jojo** » 13 Nov 2011 18:48

there are quite a lot of john marshalls listed in the railway records on ancestry

Post by **Bella** » 13 Nov 2011 18:54

I don't have ancestry but will have a look at that next time I am in the library where I can access ancestry.

Thank you Jojo