Thomas Sprung

Post by **moya** » 12 Nov 2011 04:36

Have come to a brickwall. On the 1881 census Thomas Sprung is 14 years old, living in West Derby. His father is a cigar maker. On the Isle of Man census for 1881 there is a 22 year old Thomas Sprung, born England, who is also a cigar maker. The younger Thomas I have had no problem tracing through the years, but can't find anything for the 22 year old, nothing in FreeBMD and I checked all counties. I have done a lot of research into the Sprung family, but this one seems to have appeared out of thin air !! Any suggestions. Regard Moya

Post by **MaryA** » 12 Nov 2011 10:56

To assist anybody wishing to help, here are the entries mentioned

1881 10 Sinclair Street, West Derby
Lewis Sprung Head Widr 54 Cigar Maker Liverpool
Helena daur Unm 19 Douglas IOM
Lewis son " 17 Joiner " "
Margaret daur " 16 Domestic Servant " "
Thomas son 14 " "
Hunter? son 11 scholar " "
Isabella daur 7 " Liverpool, Lancashire
Eliza " 5 " " "
Mary A " 2 " "
RG11; Piece: 3708; Folio: 34; Page: 3

52 Duke Street, Onchan, Isle of Man
William Dalrymple?? Head Widr 40 Cigar Maker employing 1 man Scotland
children Sarah 17, Janet 12, Charlotte 9, all born England
Mary Thomson is a servant and boarders
William Sherlock 26 Gilder from England and
Thomas Sprung 22 Cigar Maker from England
RG11; Piece: 5604; Folio: 29; Page: 9

Post by **simone** » 12 Nov 2011 11:22

There's a Thomas Spung on passenger lists, but don't have access

Post by **dickiesam** » 12 Nov 2011 13:33

His absence from any census after 1881, from BMDs anywhere and from military service lists, suggests to me he emigrated before 1890 when the outgoing passenger lists start.
Since his employer in the IoM was from Scotland I though Thomas might have headed in that direction but the Scots 1891/1901 censuses didn't give up a hit.

DS

Post by **simone** » 12 Nov 2011 14:33

Hi Moya

Do you know anything of this family in 1861?
Lathm Place, Islington ,Liverpool
RG9; Piece: 2691; Folio: 10; Page: 19
Luderaig Sprung 23 cigar maker, b Liverpool
Mary Sprung 19 b Isle of Man
Anne Sprung 53 mother, b Isle of Man
Anne Sprung 27 siste, b Liverpol
William Sprung 15 cigar maker b Liverpool
Thomas Sprung 13 brother, cigar maker b Liverpool

wrong age for Thomas but wonder if connected with Mary and Anne being born in Isle of Man

Simone x

Post by **dickiesam** » 12 Nov 2011 16:17

This is the Sprung family that Simone found in 1861,

1871:
SPRUNG, Thomas - Head - 22 - 1849 - Cigar Maker - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Margaret - Wife - 21 - 1850 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Adelaide - Sister - 29 - 1842 - Laundress - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Thomas - Son - 2 - 1869 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Samuel - Son - 11 mths - 1870 - Liverpool.
Address: 7 House, 23 Court, Blandford Street, Liverpool.
RG10 - Piece:3788 - Folio:155 - Page:29

Note: Findmy past... The transcription gives Samuel's age as 11 years. It's due to a 'scrappy' correction of a mistake on the summary page and in the transfer of the age of 11 mths from the Female column to the Male. Correction submitted backed up with:
Birth Jun 1870 - Liverpool - 8b - 238: Sprung, Samuel Carl L.

But, haven't found any of this family in 1881 yet, or any relevant Ms or Ds.

DS

Post by **simone** » 12 Nov 2011 19:37

Adelaide married James Doran at St Peter Liverpool in 1871

there's a death and burial for a 3 year old Samuel Sprung in April 1874 , West Yorkshire

Post by **Hilary** » 12 Nov 2011 19:58

1871 census 35 Bigwell St Conchan
lewis Sprung 33 cigar maker bn England
Mary Sprung 27 Isle of Man
helena daughter 9 Douglas
lewis son bn England
Margaret daur 5 bn Douglas
Thomas son 4 bn Douglas
Hunter son 2 Douglas
Eliza daur 5 mths bn Douglas

Post by **Hilary** » 12 Nov 2011 20:22

And 1841 Liverpool
Carl l Sprung 30 cigar maker bn Foreign Parts
Margaret 30
Anna 7
helens 4
Carl l 3
Elizabeth 1

The Carl L aged 3 could be the Ludwig in 1861 with wife Mary

There's a baptism of Anna Margaret Connell born 13 November 1833 baptised 27 August 1873 at Our Lady of Reconciliation daughter of Caroli (Carl) L Sorung and Margaret Looney on Ancestry

Hannah Margaret had been christened on 19 january 1834 at St Nicholas C of E in Liverpool parents Carl Ludwig and Margaret of Standish Street Carl Ludwig a cigar maker.

Post by **dickiesam** » 12 Nov 2011 23:55

I am fairly sure this is the family in 1881. There were 2 births in Halifax and this might explain Samuel's death in West Yorkshire. Correction of name to Sprung submitted.

1881:
SPRING, Thomas - Head - Married - 32 - Cigar Maker - LiveThere rpool.
SPRING, Margaret - Wife - 31 - Halifax. [see note below]
SPRING, Elizabeth - Dtr - 7 - Liverpool. [see note below]
SPRING, Albert - Son - 3 - Liverpool. [see note below]
SPRING, Arthur - Son - 1 - Liverpool.
Address: 12 Gower Place, Whitechapel, London, Middlesex.
RG11 - Piece:446 - Folio:112 - Page:10

Note: I think the enumerator got Elizabeth's birthplace wrong. Switched for Margaret's...
Births Mar 1874: SPRUNG, Elizabeth - Halifax - 9a - 438.
And Albert too...
Births Mar 1878: Sprung, Albert - Halifax - 9a - 474.

1891. The family are back in Liverpool, but Thomas snr isn't there.
SPRUNG, Margaret - Head - Married - 41 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Elizabeth - Dtr - U/m - 17 - Tailoress - Halifax, Yorkshire.
SPRUNG, Albert - Son - 13 - Halifax, Yorkshire.
SPRUNG, Frederick - Son - 11 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Harry - Son - 9 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Margaret - Dtr - 6 - Liverpool.
SPRUNG, Thomas - Son - 3 - Liverpool.
Address: 18 Bidder Street, Liverpool.
RG12 - Piece:2922 - Folio:88 - Page:25

Deaths Sep 1895: SPRUNG, Margaret - 45 - Liverpool - 8b - 66.

DS

Post by **moya** » 13 Nov 2011 01:45

Thankyou all for your help, I have traced this family's origins from when Carl Ludwig Sprung arrived in Liverpool from Germany in the early 1830's and married a Margaret Lewney, whose birthplace was the Isle of Man. Most of the members of the various generations have been cigar makers, and one of the sons of Carl & Margaret did return to the Isle of Man and married there. It was just this Thomas Sprung that has me puzzled. On the 1871 census Thomas & Margaret Sprung have two children, Thomas age 2 and Samuel age 11 months. Samuel died age 3 in Halifax but I can't find a birth or a death for Thomas, but he must have died as there was another Thomas who was born & died in 1876 and yet another one who was born in 1888. As Thomas & Margaret didn't marry until 1870, this Thomas must have been "on the way" But even if he lived he wouldn't have fitted the age of the Thomas Sprung age 22 IOM. Regards Moya