Understanding burial terms.

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 12:46

Stuck again! I have the burial of Joseph Buck on Jan 3rd 1846 St Luke Chelsea. Beautifully written entry on Anc*****! I have not one inkling of certain parts. Well, I understand the name bit! His birth address is given as "A Flat Stone". Under the heading "quarters" is what looks like an "S" but he's the only one on the page to have this? I know Joseph was married and was an organ builder. He was born in 1803. His daughter, Maria Eliza was born in Liverpool although he and his wife were both born Middlesex. On the 1841 census he is living in Little St George St, St Luke. Can anyone advise please.
Pauline.

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2011 13:52

Don't know about the S, which some entries have but most have N, but the Flat Stone means just that, one of those stones that are laid down, such as you find in graveyards around a church, rather than a stand up headstone.

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 13:57

Seems then that the only info there is for him is that he has a flat stone as a marker. Typical eh! The only one on the page with no other info. I've googled this boy and he seems to have been known for his organ pipes! Thanks Mary.

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2011 14:19

If anybody else can help, there is quite a shortage of information for this Joseph Buck, compared to some of the others

The headings across are
3 Jan 1846 (This is the date - under Time of Burial)

Time of Burial Name, Age, Where from, Number, Row, Quarters, Depth of Grave, Stone, Single Brick Grave, Double Brick Grave, Poor

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 14:27

Thanks Mary - I couldn't have done that if I'd tried...or it would have taken days!

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2011 14:31

Not at all - simple instructions here
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9817

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2011 14:40

I don't know for sure that the P = Poor, as some entries are written in full Poor, others just P (and this is under the "Double Brick Grave" column).

I believe the end column is the charge - many of them have ~.6.0. another has 3.11.6. At the top of the column is 75-15-1 and at the bottom is 89-1-3 so I think these are all payments made for the graves/headstones in £ s. d.

I don't believe the clerk used the columns properly -

Many of the entries have a C under the Single Brick Grave.
In the column for Depth of Grave some have numbers between 5 and 15, I can't imagine there would be 15 burials in the one grave? even 5 is more than we are used to here, another couple say 11/16 or 5/16.

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 15:12

Aha....so it could be a substantial stone if it was £3.11s.2p. Looks like there's a total at the end of that column Mary - so that may well be payments. Can't imagine him being skint if he was an organ pipe maker! Grand stuff! I'd like to know if he was maybe working on an organ up here...for Maria Eliza to be born Liverpool about 1825.

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2011 15:45

It would seem likely wouldn't it, but I think it would be a big job to discover one that had recently been built just before then, and then find records.

Possibly directories might be your first search - was she baptised here?

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 16:04

Can't find a baptism anywhere! Will have a look at where her two sisters were done......both born in Middlesex. One sister is 2 years older than her but there seems to be a gap of 15 years before the next child...now THAT'S odd!

Uh-oh...have now found births for 4 more children up to 1845. Defo same family. All baptised in the same church but still no sign of poor wee Maria Eliza! Did find a baptism in Liverpool for a boy...but his da' was a labourer.

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Aug 2011 18:18

The London Parish Registers on Ancestry are filmed copies of registers held by the London Metropolitan Archives I'd contact them and ask them what it means - they must have had many queries in the past from people using the records.

I'd also ask if anyone has transcribed the monumental inscriptions you never know you might be lucky.

You could also ask if they have any information on organ builders.

It's worth a try!!

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Aug 2011 18:20

There's an Institute of Organ Biulders - they might be able to point you in the direction of information about your man.

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 18:21

Thanks Hilary. The lady I'm helping out is amazed by what we've found so far....it's been a fabulous voyage of discovery for her. I suspect she'll take over and go to all the lengths needed! I'd love there to be a stone still recognisable for her! Shall pass on your suggestions and maybe make a start myself.
Pauline.

Aha....I found some info on them when I "Googled" earlier.

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Aug 2011 18:56

I think he left a will!!

Go to the National Archives site at www.nationalarchives.gov. uk

when it opens click on the picture in the middle that says records

When that opens look to the right and click on documents on line

When that opens look to the right and click on Wills

When that opens find the word search on that and click

Then in the search box put in Joseph Buck and lo and behold there is

Joseph Buck gentleman of St Lukes Chelsea the date given is 9 Feb 1846 (I think that is the date of probate)

You can download a copy of the will for £3.50

It'll be a bit difficult to read if you print it outon A4 but you can enlarge it to read on the computer.

Post by **PJLong** » 30 Aug 2011 19:13

Done Hilary.....but not my man. This chap is from Old Brompton. No idea who the folk were who benefited neither! Lordy...isn't it hard to read!

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Aug 2011 20:12

Sorry about that!

Just a thought if it's not your man maybe he is the man buried at St Lukes not yours if you see what I mean.

How confusing 2 Joseph Bucks in St Lukes Chelsea!

Perhaps your friend should get the death certificate.