Welsh look-up, please

[chiefsub68]

Hiya

I've traced my Liverpool Williams and Roberts families back to Newborough, Wales. If anybody has a census subscription at the moment, could the please check on a Margaret Evans, believed to be living in Rallt Gwta, Newborough, in the 1851 census? Interested to see who was living with her.

Thanks

Will

[Tina]

Hi
Is this in Anglesey?
How old would Margaret be please?

Tks
Tina

[MaryA]

It might be easier to give the full census/marriage/birth certificate that you have of them in Liverpool, it is far easier to search for a family than just the one person.

[chiefsub68]

At work at mo. Will get back on Sunday. Thanks!

Will

[chiefsub68]

Hi again

Yes, I am talking about Anglesey - sorry for the confusion.

The information I have is here: http://bramhill.net/WilliamsNewborough/ ... front.html

My cousin has found that the mother of Ellen (b1838) was Margaret Evans, and she registered the death at 19 days of her grandson (a twin) in 1859. The children were born at Church Street, which we presume was the home of Ellen and her husband John Roberts. Margaret's twin, however, died at Rallt Gwta, which we understand was a house among the trees on the way down to Newborough Warren - and probably Margaret Evans's home. John and Ellen moved to Rallt Gwta later in life, so presumably after Ellen's parents died. John Roberts was a mariner, and I think he would have been a ferryman between Newborough and Caernarfon.

[MaryA]

To do a search for a name such as Evans we would need at the very least a date of birth.

If Margaret registered the death of her grandchild - the son of her daughter - presumably his name wouldn't be Evans, nor would Ellen's - just picked up the surname ROBERTS from your post, although I have realised that you are interested in the 1851 census, when was Ellen married?

Who are we searching for here? Are you expecting Ellen and perhaps a husband to be with Margaret?

If you have found Margaret in the 1861 census perhaps you could give those details, including the reference, as it would definitely help giving her age and birthplace.

We have some access to street indexes for Liverpool but not to Wales, maybe a Welsh FHS might have something available.

[Hilary]

You may not be aware but libraries in the UK have a subscription to Ancestry which can be used for free.

Your post was difficult to follow. My understanding of it is
Unknown EVANS marries Margaret UNKNOWN

they have daughter Ellen born (1838) I would recommend you purchase her birth certificate to proof her parentage

Ellen EVANS marries John ROBERTS
they have twins in Newborough in 1859 Are these JOnn and Margaret?

1841 census this is the only Margaret Evans in Newborough
Pen y Gamla Newborough - I suggest you go to the libarary and look this up and move up and down the entries to plave it in Newborough
Hugh EVAns 35 seamn
Margaret 45
John 9
Elin 3

1851 census Malltraeth St Newborough
Hugh Evans H M 48 farmer of 100 acres bn Newboro
Margaret wife 54 bn Llanfechell Anglesey

1861 Rallt Gwata Newborough
Hugh Evans H M 57 labouer with 4 acres land
Margaret wife 48
Ellen Roberts grandaughter 3 mariner's daghter
all bn Newborough

They appear on later censues but you can get them when you check the earlier census to position the property

Mariner will be someone going to sea. I very much doubt he was a ferryman as that would be used as his occupation. My recollections of Newborough was of sand with no harbour but I could be wrong.

Once you have Ellen's birth certificate you will be able to find her parent's marriage.

Anglesey Record Office has now reopened in a new building. They will hold the church records and other records for Newborough.

Not sure what this has to do with Liverpool!!!

[MaryA]

What a great bit of research!

[MaryA]

What a great bit of research - considering it's gleaned from such a small amount of information.

[Hilary]

Thank you just wish I could crack some of mine!

Remember Elizabeth Jones? Something new has come to light!

[MaryA]

More Welsh, I look forward to hearing

[chiefsub68]

Many thanks, all, esp Education Officer. Sorry, I should have simplified the family tree. The 1861 census is certainly the right family, but the ages of the families in the earlier censuses don't tally. Thank you for the tip about Ancestry at the local library: I've checked, and it applies in Essex, too. Now all I need is a day off now!

I've been mystified about the mariner bit. There are several mariners in all of Newborough's censuses but, as you say, no harbour, and I don't think there's ever been a fishing fleet. There was a ferry between Newborough and Caernarfon, however, which demanded a real skill because of the currents and shifting sandbanks.

Will

[chiefsub68]

Oh, sorry, nothing to do with Liverpool except that Ellenor's daughter Margaret later married Robert Williams in Bangor cathedral, then moved to Liverpool. She lived in part of a street that was demolished when Goodison Park was extended, then moved to Bardsay Road, Walton.

[Hilary]

I wouldn't be too bothered by the ages in the census. It's the only family of Evans in Newborough so it has to be the same family. Also there are too many coincidences of names. People weren't as used to being asked their ages at that time then they or the enumerator had to fill in a form, then the enumerator copied it into his book and that's what we see. Sometimes the writing is awful and you have to allow for the possibility of a typing error of mine.

In family history you need to check everything and don't believe it till you've seen the evidence with your own eyes. I think if you look at the census yourself you will see it's the same family.
BUT
As I said you need Ellen's birth certificate and then if her father is Hugh you need Hugh and Margaret's marriage certificate.

Plenty of other ports on Anglesey for someone to have sailed from and plenty of ships.

As Hugh becomes a farmer the Record Office may well have something that is helpful.