Hartely/Kilroy

[alancon]

Hi Mojo19,

Like you, my Mum thinks she is related to Sir William Pickles Hartley.

And like you, there is a story of a gift of money. Ours is that William Hartley had 3 daughters and gave each a large sum of money when he sold the jam business. 2 daughters used it wisely, the 3rd frittered the money away. Gues which one I am supposed to come from!

Having done a bit of research on this, none of the above appears to be true. Sir William had 6 daughters (not counting Christiana, who as far as I can tell, never married). Sir William still ran the business after WW1, he died in 1922, so I would guess he still owned the business when he died.

My Mum's ancestors were Greatbanks. I've wondered if one married the Hartley daughters, but nothing seems to match up. My Mum's grandmother was Mary Ann Greatbanks, but her father was Edward Kent, She was born 1852, so she can't be Sir Willam's daughter, or even niece.

The first 3 daughters (Maggy Ann, Pollie, and Sarah J all ,married early on.
The only son, John, looked after the Bermondsey branch, but died soon after his father.

The last 3 daughters, Clara Lioks, Martha B, and Constance Beautrice, are all with their parents on the 1911 Census, yet an ebook states that they were all married by the time he died in 1922. Having no luck tracing who they married, even over such a short period of time.

Does any of this ring any bells? Perhaps most families in Lancshire have a story of misspent money!

[Tina]

Great post Alan and welcome aboard.
More intrigue!!
Thank you for finding this topic.
Cheers
Tina

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. It's great when connections are made.

I wonder if either of you has a copy of the Will of William Pickles Hartley, as that might answer some of your questions. The Probate Calendar for 1923 gives the following information -

Hartley sir William Pickles of 11 Oxford Road Birkdale Lancashire knight died 25 October 1922 Probate London 5 February to dame Martha O'Connor Hartley widow Christiana Hartley spinster and John Sharp Higham director. Effects £1099935.19s

These might just be the Executors and other beneficiaries might be mentioned in the Will itself.

As this was registered in London, I believe you will need to apply to York for the Will, sending a cheque or postal order for £5, made payable to HMCS.

I have just been told that Leeds now deal with the requests to the old York address so send the enquiry to

York Probate Sub Registry
Picadilly House
55 Piccadilly
York North Yorkshire
England
YO1 9WL

[alancon]

Thanks MaryA, was thinking of looking up the will myself.

Managed to track down Clara, middle name is Lister, not Lioks. Lister is of course a previous maternal surname. I do love it when parents name their children after their grandparents, not so clever when they give them their own name!

Found more about the business on the TitanicHeritageTrust.org website. Apparently Hartley supplied the jam for the Titanic!

The business was sold in 1959 when it was taken over by Cadbury Schweppes. The shareholders were mainly family members an employees. The business sold for about £2 million. So the money could well have passed to the 3 daughters alive then, at the time the business was sold, along with others.

Now this is interesting, as my Mother knew nothing of this during her childhood years until her mother stayed with us for a while, possibly in the early 1960's. Was my grandmother recounting something recent, that my mother thought was ancient? Interesting that she knew all about Christiana, even though they lived in Bristol and were basically cut off from the rest of the Greatbanks up North.

Will have to question my mother more on this.

[Hilary]

Coincedentally I have just received a flyer for a new book by Nicholas Hartley the 2X great grandson of William Hartley the founder of Hartley's Jam. It might be of use to you.

The book is called

Bittersweet - The story of Hartley's Jam
By Nicholas Hartley
Published by Amberley Publishing, The Hill, Stroud, Gloucs GLS 4ER

ISBN 978-1-84868-292-4

Price £14.99

[daggers]

I have just come across a Hartley link, when looking up names on a war memorial in Garston. The name was Lieut. H. Barkby, Royal Field Artillery, who was killed in France in 1916. The first name turned out to be Hartley, and Google produced the following from Mill Hill [a London School's] Roll of Honour:
'Record: Holmdale, Lathom Road, Southport. Born 2nd July, 1897. 5, M.H. 9, 1911 to 7, 1915, Ridgeway House. VI. Monitor. 1st XI. (hockey). School O.T.C., Lance-Corporal. Entered at Trinity College, Cambridge. Commissioned 1st September, 1915, R.F.A. (1st East Lancs). Lieut. Served in France. Killed 2nd August, 1916. Son of the Rev. and Mrs. Joseph Thomas Barkby. His C.O. Says:-- "He was a favourite of all, very clever and efficient, and was destined to play an important part in the brigade. He was one I picked out to perform tasks requiring special vigour and talent on the part of the officer undertaking them. He will be very much missed by us." The Major in charge of the battery writes:-- "It was no surprise to me to hear that he had been Assistant Instructor in gunnery at home in spite of the few months' service which he had had. He knew his job better than any officer who was posted to my battery from England at the front. ...He will be difficult to replace in the battery." The Primitive Methodist Chaplain says:-- "Through all the infantry battalions of my brigade the news has caused sincere and general sorrow . . . . He was winsome and clean and gentle." The Hartley Barkby scholarship has been founded in his memory by his grandfather, Sir William Pickles Hartley.'

D

[Clatterbridgegirl1967]

On LancashireBMD found (FREE SITE)
1913 Constance B Hartley marrying John Caul at St Marks Methodist Church, Church St. North Sefton Ref A21/3/22

they also had a birth
1913 John Caul, Toxteth Park East
but I couldnt get the mothers maiden name

Sept 1913 Constance B Hartley marrying John Cant, Ormskirk, Lancashire Vol 8b Page 1654

There is no birth reference for a John Caul
but there is one for Jean Caul but mother is 'Caul' so wrong one

There are three references that are possibilities for Martha B

Lancs.bmd
1908 Martha Hartley marrying Luke J Flynn, St Michael, Toxteth Park, Liverpool, 2068TP/21/490
1925 Martha Hartley marrying Alfred H Johnson, St Luke, Crosby, South Sefton A10/3/106

FMP
Sep 1911 Martha Hartley marrying either Richard Winn or John T Galloway, West Derby, Lancashire Vol 8b Page 455

There are no winn or galloway children on FMP but lots on Lancashire.BMD
Too many to list and they dont list the mother on most of them

Ali

[daggers]

From FreeBMD, Q3 1890:
Barkby, Joseph Thomas and Hartley, Maggie Ann - Ormskirk 8b 1314

D

[MaryA]

Reading my copy of the Liverpool Family Historian I came across a short resume of the book "Bittersweet: The Story of Hartley's Jam" by Nicholas Hartley and remembered the interest that was provoked in this post.

Coming to enter a note about the book I discovered that Hilary did already post about this, however I thought I would just remind those who were originally interested in the family as neither had returned and commented after the last few very interesting entries made by some of our forum helpers.