Any Welsh expertise out there?

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 11:51

Lordy - Ireland one week, Wales the next. I'm stumped on a whole family of DATE children! Hannah b. reg. 1887, William William b. reg. 1900, Agnes Mary b. reg 1903 (though we know she was born Dec 22 1902) Maggie Elizabeth b. reg 1905 and Robert Edward b. reg 1910 - all CARNARVON. I cannot find ANY of these youngsters on ANY census!!!
Have tried millions

of combinations of names and surnames but .....nowt! An elderly relative provided me with the first names of the children and I managed to locate their birth registrations. This lady also says family folklore had it that the mother died in childbirth but she doesn't know when. Nor does she know mother or father's names. Again, I can find no fitting death. Agnes Mary married in 1923, St Asaph with the surname TATE. (this is the lady whose granddaughter has asked me to hunt for ancestors) William W. DATE married in 1925 (Carnarvon) and Robert E. DATE married in 1938 (Carrnarvon) Before I start spending my friends cash on certs - any suggestions? I've posted on the Gwynedd F.H.S. site too! As always, all nudges/advice gratefully ("very" in this case) received.
Cheers all,
Pauline.

Post by **Blue70** » 29 May 2011 12:19

Hi Pauline

You might get better help on Rootschat's Welsh threads:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... 119.0.html

Blue

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 12:20

Cheers Blue...shall pop in there too!

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 13:13

Hi Pauline
juat a couple of ideas

given the names I am wondering about this couple

North Wales Bmd has Sep q 1886 marriage
DATE William
PIERCE Jane A (Jane Agnes)
Caernarfon, Civil Marriage Gwynedd - Bangor

not sure if connected but also wondering about this family living at Little Sutton, Cheshire

1891 England
RG12; Piece: 2872; Folio 84; Page 63
William Date 26 b Festiniogg?
Fanny Date 24 b Carnarvonshire
Fanny Date 4
Joseph H Date 2/12
Richard Nanney 28
Ann Nanney 24
Richard Nanney 1/12
John Pearce 21
John Williams 26
Selina Williams 28
John R Williams 1
John Date 14

thought maybe Fanny pet name for Hannah

The Nanney's, Williams', John Pearce and John Date are all lodgers... may be reading to much into it but notice that Jane Agnes in the marriage I found was Pierce, they gave one son the name William William(s)

trouble is can't track them in 1901.... or the couple from the marriage

Simone x

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 13:43

Hi Simone....I pored for ages over this entry last night and I can't think where but I found the two Fanny's on a later census

The elderly lady that gave us the info on kiddies names also thought there was a "Jane" in the mix somewhere. Funny that the first child I'm hunting for, Hannah, was reg'd 1887! Strong chance there's something here eh! Have posted on Roots and Gwynedd F.H.S so will hang fire on concentrating on them for a little while. Meanwhile - I'll look at the other side!

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 13:45

Oh....and Simone - guess where I live? Yes - Little Sutton!

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 13:49

Hi Pauline... fingers crossed then

thought it funny that they named a child William William...

maybe the Pierce/Williams families are all connected

Simone x

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 14:05

Whoohoo Simone......1901 RG13 Piece 5270 Folio 81 Page 37. Lookee lookee!

Post by **Hilary** » 29 May 2011 14:13

northwalesbmd shows
Agnes Mary TATE marrying in a Civil Marriage St Asaph in 1923

William W TATE married Priscilla M ROBERTS at St Mary Caernarfon in 1925

I think it would be worth your friend getting her grandparent's marriage certificate to find out Agnes' father's name.

siblings marrying as TATE not DATE does appear to show confusion over a spelling.
The same site shows William DATE marrying Jane A PIERCE at Caernarfon Civil Marriage in 1887

Post by **Hilary** » 29 May 2011 14:22

I can only find one Jane Agnes Pierce

1881 census Llanbeblig Caernarvonshire
John Pierce H M 30 mill labourer bn Lannfairpg etc etc (yes it's the long one) Anglesey
Ann wife 36 Methyr Tydfyl
Jane Agnes 14
John 11
Ellen 9
Elizabeth 6
Margaret 3
Mary1
children all born Llanbeblig

The husband William dates birth reg is Juen Q Ffestiniog vol 11b page 465

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 14:27

PJLong wrote:Whoohoo Simone......1901 RG13 Piece 5270 Folio 81 Page 37. Lookee lookee!

nice one Pauline

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 14:48

The Date/Tate confusion was apparently known in the family....doesn't make life easy does it! Been over the road to get a translation of the shush census from my mate! Oh my - it's turned out sunny (in this house anyway!) Thanks each - what would I do without you all. x

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 15:00

Pauline.. I've got Forest of Dean rellies who used totaly different names to those in the records.. so I do know how frustrating/puzzling it can get

Good luck, let us know how you get on

Simone x

Post by **Hilary** » 29 May 2011 15:01

I've just pm'd you but I think you may have the info already!!

William in 1871 12 Well St Llanbeblig transcribed as Daste
Hannah head married 31
William son 6 bn Ffestiniog
Elizabeth Jane daur 3 bn llanrug
Joseph Henry son 8 months bn (somewhere in carenarvonshire same as mother but can't read it)

Post by **Hilary** » 29 May 2011 15:03

from northwalesbmd

Nicholas DATE married Hannah WILLIAMS 1864 Blaneau Ffestiniog St David

That's were the Williams comes from!!

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 15:09

Yay Hilary

great stuff

Post by **Hilary** » 29 May 2011 15:13

I think we all need to pat ourselves on the back.

I'd put the kettle on but have to go and get some milk first - I miscalculated!!

I wonder where Nicholas came from? Maybe a marriage certifictae or 2 are needed William to Jane and Nicholas to Hannah just to confirm we're clever.

I wonder why William used Williams what was he hiding from? Sorry I have a suspicious mind!

Post by **simone** » 29 May 2011 15:18

Education Officer wrote:I wonder why William used Williams what was he hiding from? Sorry I have a suspicious mind!

me too Hilary

maybe he just fell out with dad

Simone x

Post by **PJLong** » 29 May 2011 15:19

I shall be raising a wee glass of something stronger later to you all for your superb input with Mary Agnes Date/Williams.....if only she could see the blood sweat and tears we (well, YOU, all actually!) put in on this one. Every one of these trees I help friends with teaches me more and more of this fascinating hobby. I get sidetracked looking for info on abodes and workplaces. We lead charmed lives now by all accounts eh!
Now....lets all hold our breaths for Oswald Breakey and mother's info coming through this week! Now - THERE'S a challenge!!!

Post by **PJLong** » 30 May 2011 15:01

Nicholas Date......I've been a-mooching! Think I have yer man Nicholas born Sithney, Helston, Cornwall in 1842. He was a Tin Miner - aged 19 and single on the 1861 census. Married Hannah Williams 1864 St David's Blaenauffestiniog. He perhaps tootled up to N.Wales to join the mining community there. I can only find one death........1881 reg Caernavon. Presuming he's my man I also have his parents....Thomas and Eliza AND his G.father, also a Nicholas Date! All Cornish born with a right unusual surname (for me to find anyway!) thrown in: PENALUNA. She was Nicholas's mum and her father.....Zacharius Penaluna! Rain not bothering me today as there's loads going on in the ancestry world!
Hmmm.....1871 census I can only find one Nicholas Date with a near fitting age....but he wasn't with his wife...and he WASN'T married. Though his wife has a two year old, Nicholas, at home. Now I wonder!