can anyone read latin please

Post by **Hilary** » 22 Apr 2011 11:07

You can try for a biirth certificate with just a name, date of birth and mother's name. But you need to explain to them the problem.

Last year we had a lady from the states to the Birkdale help desk who was trying to find her grandfather's birth. We went round t o the GRO and explained we had a date of birth, father's full name and mother's first name but had no idea were he was born and there were too many of that name anyway. They took the money and some time later the birth certificate arrived.

Are you anywhere near and could go to the GRO yourself? Or ring them up.

Post by **germaine cowell** » 22 Apr 2011 12:42

Hi Tina.
I have no idea this is the first William Mack that I have found about the right age that can't be accounted for that might be him.
Been looking on the census for Liverpool and there are 2 Margaret Macks that were the right age group and single in Liverpool.
Have traced one never ahd a child with her in census.
the other one still looking for in 1891. checked Margaret Mack marriages none had a child with them named William. He looks like he has disappeared just like my Grandad appeared. Oh it is so confusing

Thanks Hilary will ring them can't get myself.
Germaine
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Post by **germaine cowell** » 10 May 2011 14:35

Well they are doing a search. Still waiting hope they find it eventually.
Germaine
x

Post by **Tina** » 11 May 2011 10:46

Fingers crossed Germaine

Tina

Post by **germaine cowell** » 11 May 2011 13:49

Thanks Tina I keep looking for the postman now no luck today again

Germaine
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Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 13:07

Katie wrote:Might be worth looking in Liverpool Workhouse records for 1882 to see if there is a Margaret Mack being admitted to have a baby.

Thanks Katie. Sorry missed your post.
Any idea how I can do this on line can't get to a record office.
Germaine
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Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 13:09

Well still no nearer. Anyone any other ideas where to go to now.
No cert.

Got the reply today least I got my money back.
Tell you that man has led me a merry dance.
Germaine
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Have just emailed the Liverpool records office see if they can help.

Thank you for your order as detailed below.

Quantity Ordered = 1
Childs Forename at Birth = WILLIAM
Childs Surname at Birth = MACK
Mothers Forename = MARGARET
Mothers Maiden Name = MACK
Date Range From = 01-JAN-1881
Date Range To = 31-DEC-1883
Place of Event = LIVERPOOL
********** of Child = M
Checking Point/Reference = DOE 1882
Application Number = 3185615 - 1
Ordered item = Standard E/W Birth Full w/o GRO

We have been unable to process your application, please refer to the paragraph below.

We have searched the indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1881-1883). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided.

A full refund of £9.25 has been credited to your account via RBS Worldpay

Post by **simone** » 20 May 2011 15:24

Hi Germaine

was trying to think outside of the box

If you do a search in Liverpool Catholic baptisms there are afew with Margaret Mack as mother...

but.. they all seem to be missing from census..or I'm going mad

was looking for those with dad Patrick

there are 2 to Patrick Corr and maragret mack, although a bit early for your William.. but I can't see Patrick in census

also closest marriage I can see for this couple is 1873 Patrick Corr and Margaret Mcnamara...
so could your William's name have been abbreviated too at some point

theer is a Micahel Mullen b 1891 to John Mullen and Margaret Mack... but can't see them either

Simone x
difficult this one isn't it

Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 15:45

Thanks Simone. Yes you are right Patrick doesn't seem to appear on any cenus.
I am starting to wonder this although he said it wasn't shortened I am beginning to think it was.
But even then not been able to find that could be them. They ususally turn up in a census with their full name.
Will have a look at those marriages see if they cast a light on anything.
Oh yes certainly a difficult one isn't it.
Was told he was a mystery when I was a kid and so he is still!!!
I hadn't noticed the one with a mother called Margaret excpet for this one. Maybe this one is one shortened to Mack.
Did find a Margaret Mack burial and found her in a couple fo census but no clue there.
thanks for trying
Germaine
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Post by **simone** » 20 May 2011 17:34

Hi Germaine

Could you post the details from your grandad's marriage cert.. any clues there? addresses, witnesses maybe

what age does he give at marriage?

have done a blanket search on free bmd for lancashire, for sep q 1882 and then dec q 1882.. using just the name william..to try and track that baptism you found... only ones with mac in are William Machray and William Macdonald... found Machray on census.. didn't find Macdonald but possible for McDonald

although no birth reg for McDonald.. interestingly William McDonald has a dad Patrick

but mum is Mary... Patrick McDonald married Mary Hayes in 1877.
still no nearer though

Simone x

Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 18:50

Thanks Simone.
My Grandad is certainly leading everyone a merry dance.
Will post the details of his marriage though no clues there someone may think of something.
In the meantime. No luck with the record office they too have looked.
Germaine
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Dear Germaine Cowell,

Thank you for your enquiry. I have searched the register of births at Liverpool Workhouse, Brownlow Hill, (353SEL 20/5) for the name William Mack occurring in July 1882. The name is not listed. I have also briefly searched through 1882 for that name but without success.
The register of births is stamped as passed to the Auditors, so I would have expected any birth at that institution to be included in the local and national (GRO) registers of births.
West Derby Union was as likely to have provided relief, if the family were eligible. The only registers surviving for the period you are researching are Creed Registers of admissions to Mill Road Hospital (614MIL 1).

Please find attached details of our research service should you require any further research.

Yours sincerely
Paul Keogh
Liverpool Record Office.

Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 19:41

Marriage details. Though I think I have searched for most clues on there maybe someone else can see something I didn't.
October 3rd 1908
William Mack 28 years bachelor window cleaner 24 Warren Street Fleetwood father Patrick Mack (deceased) cabinet maker (journey man)
Wit. Robert Walters and Mary Ann Wilson.
My Granny Sarah Cleary I know all about her family and got them back in Ireland (luckily the family talked about her) Mary Ann Wislon the wit. I know all about her too she used to be know. as Granny Wilson as the family lived with her for a while and she brought up my Granny's illigitimate child. Robert Walters I managed to find in Preston in 1911 he didn't come from Fleetwood/Liverpool so think he was someone they just knew from here in Fleetwood ( a tatto artist) likely he was here for a short while looking for work (fishing port).
My Granny knocked 4 years off her age when she married that is why I am not too worried about this William that I have found being a couple of years out in age. You know what they were like.
The 1911 census is difficult to read looks like he put either 23 or 33 as his age. I think he had started to write 2 and changed it to 3 then added the 3 hope that makes sense.
Germaine
x

Post by **simone** » 20 May 2011 20:07

Oh No.. just dropped laptop

connection for plug has bent and won't work now.... so if I dissappear when battery runs low you know why

Post by **germaine cowell** » 20 May 2011 20:29

Oh heck

hope there isn't too much damage.
xx

Post by **simone** » 21 May 2011 11:47

Hi

Sorted... bought a new lead this morning

notice a marriage in 1857 on Lancs bmd, same reg district as William's
Margaret
MACK
Patrick
GARRATTY
Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended Blackpool

too early really but could there be a link.. maybe considered Patrick as dad, but may be grandad

can't track them, closest I'm getting is in North Shields... but such variations on spelling of name

also in same district
George Ernest Mack married Eva Matilda O'Keeffee in 1915.... any idea who he is

be back later... suppose I should do housewifey things for a bit, better make them all some dinner

Simone x

Post by **germaine cowell** » 21 May 2011 12:52

Glad you got it sorted Simone.
Oh yes so many different spellings I have looked like you nearest is N Sheilds. Could be they came in to the area then moved on.
Never heard of a George am sure if they were connected my Mum would have known of them. Mind you all she seemed to know was he grew up in Liverpool and he put born Liverpool on the 1911 census.
These 2 didn't show up in the area in 1911.
I keep going back to this Margaret Mack and no father there is one in Liverpool she died 1898. There only seemed to be 2 single Magaret Macks in Liverpool of child bearing age in 1881. Well 1 plus one I think was as Margaret. Only got an initial but looks like one I found a newspaper report on. I have looked at every Patrick I can think of with cabinet maker/joiner that sort of work. Nothing. Am now thinking he made his father up won't be the first I have found like that.
Think I might get the death cert of the Margaret I found doubt it will help but you never know. Leaving no stone unsturned as they say.
My lot have eaten I don't feel like mine yet toothache

.
Only got my granddaughter and granddad here to feed.
Germaine
x

Post by **simone** » 21 May 2011 12:56

Hi

did he do military service

I notice a number of William Macks in Medal rolls...

Ithink you may right about dad

got to be a clue somewhere

hope the tooth will be ok

Simone x

Post by **Katie** » 22 May 2011 23:03

Hi

I had a look in the WOrkhouse on Saturday. I didn't find anything for a Margaret giving birth but I came across this entry could be something or it could be nothing.

24th November 1884 Margt Mack aged 30 West Derby Wife of John a seaman she had S....IS her address was recorded as 79 Gordon Street. she was discharged 24th April 1885. She was located in the Lock up section

This may not be relevant but you have to look at all scenario's.

There was also a Elizabeth Ellen Mack getting baptised at SFX in 1889 daughter of John and Margaret Mack (nee Fairclough) you will have to look at the entry there is something wrote in the side column.

Post by **Katie** » 22 May 2011 23:56

The Elizabeth Ellen Mack who was baptised in SFX got married in 1909 and she married as Elizabeth Fairclough so it seem to me that Margaret Fairclough has been having children with a John Mack. I could be wrong but this couple where also having children baptised under the surname Fairclough as well as Mack. See below

1883 John Henry Fairclough mother Margaret Fairclough
1885 Catherine Ann Fairclough mother Margaret Fairclough
1887 Daniel Edward Fairclough son of John and Margaret Fairclough (nee Fairclough)
1889 Elizabeth Ellen Mack daughter of John and Margaret Mack (nee Fairclough) married a Thomas Reynolds in 1909 under the Surname Fairclough
1891 Margaret Ellen Fairclough daughter of John and Margaret Fairclough (nee Fairclough)

I cannot find a marriage of a Mack to a Fairclough very fishy this one. I think it needs to be looked into.

I have tracked these on the census no William in the house and she is a 25 year old Widow. Oh well

Post by **germaine cowell** » 23 May 2011 08:28

Thanks for those Katie and thanks again for checking out the workhouse.
That is a strange one the Margaret with a husband John will have another look at them.
Looks like they may have lived together.?
Thanks again this will keep me quiet for a bit. Not that this man hasn't kept me quiet for years

There must be something out there. It is just finding it.
Germaine
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