Advice please

Post by **vicbee** » 05 Jan 2011 19:14

Hi

I would appreciate any advice. I am trying to find details of when my great grandmother died and how. Her name was Elizabeth Cleary, Born Elizabeth CAREY 1889 Bootle, the surname was changed at some time before her marriage to my great grandfather Stella Sterian Stanciu Casaru on 01/04/1911.

Elizabeth is at 70 Shelley St in the 1901 census, the family surname here is Carey.

The surname Casaru is often transcribed as Casarn. I have looked using all variations of these surnames!

Stella and Elizabeth had 7 children the last being Marjorie Casaru born in 1925. I have my great grandfathers death certificate, he died 14/06/1930 under sad circumstances, he committed suicide aged 41 ( only just found this out on receipt of his death certificate) . I was always told that Marjorie was left an orphan when he died so I assumed that Elizabeth died first.

I cannot find her death certificate from 1925 - 1930, I have also looked up until the 1950's although I know this can't have happened. The only other thing I can think is that she may have re-married after the last child was born in 1925 and Stella's death in 1930, although my family has never mentioned this. Any advice on where or how to look would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Vic

Post by **Hilary** » 05 Jan 2011 19:46

As you have the date of death for Stella I suggest you search in the local newspaper for a report of the inquest and perhaps a death notice. These may well say whether he was married or widowed. Also if there is a death notice it may give the cemetery he was to be buried in and it would be worth searching the same cemetery for his wife.

Bootle Times is on film at both Crosby Library and Liverpool Temporary Record office at the World Museum Liverpool. If you choose to go to Bootle library remember it is closed on a Thursday afternoon. If the family was RC it may be worth looking at the Ford cemetery records. There is a copy at Crosby and in Liverpool.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **MaryA** » 05 Jan 2011 20:08

There is also a marriage for an Elizabeth Casaru to a David McKee Q1 1947 Bootle 10b 1165, I'm posting this detail, assuming that if this is her they would now be deceased.

Post by **jan44** » 05 Jan 2011 21:08

Mary,

I think the marriage for Elizabeth Casaru to David McKee was daughter Elizabeth's marriage.

There were two births in the 50's McKee mmn Casaru.

Jan

Post by **simone** » 05 Jan 2011 21:46

vicbee wrote:Hi

The surname Casaru is often transcribed as Casarn.

Hi

What about this lady?

Could the Casarn be mistranscribed as Casam
death=
Elizabeth Casam
Month/Year: 1940, Mar quarter
Age (estimated): 49
Reg district: Liverpool North
Vol: 8b
Page: 968

if it is her then Marjorie aged about 14/15 would have been left an orphan

Simone x

Post by **dickiesam** » 05 Jan 2011 23:17

The transcription is correct. The actual GRO Death Index page shows CASAM quite clearly. It could have been the informant's spelling error when reporting the death to the registrar?

Dickiesam

Post by **Tina** » 06 Jan 2011 09:26

Hi everyone

the death is recorded in 1930 as Sterian S.S. Casaru

Hi Vic can't seem to find them in 1901 please can you list reference, tks Tina

1891 census 70 Shelley St Bootle
Maurice 35 engine fireman/seas, Mary 37, Thomas 15 all born Ireland
Robt 11, Maria 8, Maurice 6, Mary E 3, Elizabeth 1 all born Lpool.

Tina

oops as Carey

Post by **dickiesam** » 06 Jan 2011 12:14

Hi Tina, Vic, et al...

Like you Tina, I couldn't find the Carey family in 1901. Then found this:
Death Sep 1894> Carey, Maurice - 39 - W. Derby - 8b - 296.

Did a wild card search for any of the children in 1901 and found:
OWENS, Polly - Head - Married - 39 - 1862 - Limerick, Ireland.
CLARY, Maurice - Son - U/m - 19 - 1882 - Liverpool.
CLARY, Marie - Dtr - U/m - 16 - 1885 - Machine Girl At Match Factory - Liverpool.
CLARY, May E - Dtr - 13 - 1888 - Liverpool.
CLARY, Elizabeth - Dtr - 10 - 1891 - Bootle.
CLARY, Rebecca - Dtr - 7 - 1894 - Bootle.
Address: 72 Beechwood Road, Litherland, Liverpool.
RG number: RG13 / Piece:3449 / Folio:139 / Page:21.

The children listed, apart from Rebecca, match the 1891 family with some slight difference in ages. And Polly could well have 'lost' 8 years since Maurice died. I haven't found an Owens marriage for her yet. With the children's surname staying more or less the same I am thinking she didn't marry her Owens man.

However, using my Swedish Steam Method for looking into the future...... Maria/Marie married Robert Symes..
Marriages Sep 1906> CLEARY, Maria to SYMES, Robert - W. Derby - 8b - 950.
They had 4 children in rapid succession and took Maria's sisters Mary E and Rebecca into their home. It's possible that Polly/Mary had died and this is a reasonable match: Deaths Jun 1907> Owens, Mary - 47 - W.Derby - 8b - 327.

The different spellings of the name must have been pretty confusing for Elizabeth because her maiden names at the births of her children also vary in the same way, with three 'different' names.

Dickiesam

Post by **simone** » 06 Jan 2011 16:25

dickiesam wrote:The transcription is correct. The actual GRO Death Index page shows CASAM quite clearly. It could have been the informant's spelling error when reporting the death to the registrar?

Dickiesam

Hi Brian

Yes but it was just a thought as my grandfather's marriage in name of Frowen was recorded as Trowen in indexes, and image in indexes showed as Trowen too

although marriage cert definitely says correct name of Frowen

so mistakes can definitely be made at original registration

maybe the 'r&n' have been read as 'm' in name Casarn

or like you say perhaps the informant gave wrong spelling

Simone x

Post by **dickiesam** » 06 Jan 2011 17:29

Hi Simone,
You are right of course. I had forgotten about the 'transcription' or transfer of the data provided by the Registrar in his returns to the GRO to produce the quarterly Indices.

DS

Post by **simone** » 06 Jan 2011 18:01

Hi

Looks a lovely picture Brian.. would love to see a bigger version

Love that era, flapper dresses and all that

Simone x

Post by **vicbee** » 06 Jan 2011 18:03

Hi all

Wow! thanks for all the help!

Mary, the Elizabeth who married Mckee was Elizabeths daughter, my great aunt Dolly.

Simone I think you may have found her!! I will send off for the cert.

With regard to the incorrect name, I have had to contact the GRO a few times in the past to have the name corrected to CASARU so I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened again.

Dickiesam - thank you so much! The death for Maurice is the correct one.

I did not have the family in 1901, Thomas is new to me and also Rebecca born later.

I have a lot of new information to digest here Mary McCarthy Carey, Cleary AKA Polly Owens! Busy night ahead for me.

Thank you all so much, you are stars!

Vic

Post by **simone** » 07 Jan 2011 09:11

Hi Vic

Let us know how you get on... curious to know if it is her

Simone x

Post by **MaryA** » 07 Jan 2011 11:03

Marriage of Samuel OWEN to Mary Cleary Q2 1897 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended (Ref W.Derby 8b 950) - not on Liverpool History Projects unfortunately, although don't be confused since there appears to be another Mary Cleary who married in Bootle the same year.

Post by **vicbee** » 16 Mar 2011 10:30

Hi

Just wanted to thank Simone, finally got around to sending for the cert for Elizabeth Casam and it is the correct one!

Thanks again

Vic

Post by **simone** » 16 Mar 2011 15:59

Nice one Vic

glad it worked out

Simone x

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Advice please

Advice please

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Could the Casarn be mistranscribed as Casam

Re: Could the Casarn be mistranscribed as Casam