Elusive Worralls

[Barbara B]

Although sone of this is outside the area there is quite a bit of Liverpool interest as well.
I'm trying to trace the families of Thomas Worrall.
Thomas was born in Bristol in 1849. His parents were Joseph Worrall and Sarah Bagnall. He had one sister, Margaret who may have been his twin as she was also born in 1849. He also had a brother, George, born 1847.
By 1871 Thomas is married to Eliza Jones and living in Anglesey. They married in 1868. They had four children, James. born 1866, Thomas and John, born 1867 (possibly twins?) and Sarah, born 1869. All children born in Wales.
By 1881 Thomas has moved to Liverpool and has another wife and family although John is still with him. The new family are wife Mary Ann. born 1852 in Caernarvonshire, children Margaret, born 1881, Joseph, born 1882 and another Sarah, born 1886, all Liverpool.
One of the problems is that I can't find a marriage between Thomas and Mary Ann. The other is that the children of his first marriage disappear by 1891. I think I found the first Sarah in service and then a death but the others disappear without a trace. I can't find a death for his first wife either.
Anyone any ideas?
Hope this is not too long and invoved!
Barbara

[Hilary]

According to www.freebmd.org.uk John and Thomas were registered June Q 1866 they have consecutive page numbers so are indee twins. Sarah was also registered Bangor in December 1868. The marriage also appears to have taken place in the Bangor registration district in 1868. Do you have the marriage certificate.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

The 1871 census shows Eliza to be older than Thomas. It also shows that she has a 17 year old daughter. I would suggest that this death is investigated

Eliza Worral aged 47 March Q 1876 Bangor reg district

Also these deaths may be of this family

Robert George Worrall aged 8 March Q 1871 Bangor

Edwain Worrall June Q 1878 Bangor

There's a marriage in Bristol in Dec Q 1876 of a Thomas Worrall to Mary Ann Williams. You need one of the second set of children's birth certificates to find Mary Ann's maiden name.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

If you look at www.northwalesbmd.org.uk you will find something interesting

John and Thomas Worrall are there showing they were registered in the sub district of Beaumaris part of Bangor Reg District mother's maiden name SMART

Sarah is there registered in the same sub district maiden name JONES

I think you need to look for another marriage before that of Thomas and Eliza!!!!!

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Tina]

Hi girls
There's also a 10 yr old stepson William Jones in 1871 and he was born in Liverpool....step d born in Bristol.

Tina

[Barbara B]

Many thanks for all that Worrall info. I did suspect there may have been an earlier marriage for Eliza. I wonder if Sarah,John and Thomas are Worralls by birth or adoption? I think the Worrall/Williams marriage looks good. I haven't got any certificates but it might be worth ordering one.
All I have to do now is find the first family later than1881.
To add a bit more about the second family I think Margaret(b 1881) married John Prytherick in 1904 and Sarah(b1886) may have married James Barnes in 1905 but then they fall off the planet as well! I have Joseph as he is my friend's grandfather.
Thanks again for all the help so far
Barbara

[Hilary]

If you look back at my post about www.northwalesbmd.org.uk you will see that I say John and Thomas WORRALL and give you the mother's maiden name. I then give Sarah and her mother's maiden name and yes she is registered as WORRALL.

I suggest you look at the site yourself and www.freebmd.org.uk

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Barbara B]

I realised after I'd sent the reply that I'd had a senior moment there Hilary. Thanks for putting me back on track.
Barbara

[Tina]

Hi All
Lancs BMD have a marriage of James Barnes to Sarah Worrall in 1905 at St Mark's Liverpool.
Barbara, in the census after 1901 there is a Sarah Barnes in Liverpool bn 1886. Not sure if she's your Sarah.
Prytherick marriage at St David's.
Difficult surname to search. Some in Everton.

Tina

[Barbara B]

Thanks Tina
I agree, Prytherick is a difficult one. I did hope as it was so unusual I wouldn't have too much trouble finding Margaret but not so. I can't even look for children unless they were born after 1911-12 as there's no mother's maiden name.
Oh well, I'll keep digging!
Barbara

[dickiesam]

Hi,
I had thought that the name Prytherick had Cornish roots but now I think it is an anglicised form of the Welsh PRYDDERCH. The DD is the Welsh TH [with a slightly 'harder' sound]. The Y takes on an U sound because it occurs in the first syllable. That why Aberystwyth is pronounced Aberustwith. Knowing it's roots may make it easier to find in censuses.

The name comes from Ap Rydderch meaning 'son of Rydderch', the latter being a common Welsh forename. This is similar to Price which comes from Ap Rees. Ap is the Welsh equivalent to the Gaelic Mac....

Dickiesam

[dickiesam]

Irrespective of my post about the name, because John Prytherick stuck with that name when he married Margaret Worrall I found these Prytherick nee Worrall births 1912 to 1920:

PRYTHERICK, John - West Derby - 1912 Dec qtr.
PRYTHERICK, Margaret - West Derby - 1912 Dec qtr.
Twins again? See 1906 below.

PRYTHERICK, Nora - Liverpool - 1918 Sep qtr.
PRYTHERICK, Joseph - Liverpool - 1920 Sep qtr.

Seeing all the above were in Liverpool I then looked at 1904 to 1911 and found:
PRYTHERICK, Mary Jane - Liverpool - 1906 Jun qtr.
PRYTHERICK, Thomas Edward - Liverpool - 1906 Jun qtr.
Twins for the first time?
PRYTHERCH, William - West Derby - 1909 Dec qtr.

2 years after William was born he is living at 7 Guilford Street, Everton. His dad seems to have been watching too much children's tellie! Or, maybe he got 'that old time religion'!

And this fits: Deaths Jun 1906 > PRYTHERICK, Thomas E - 0 - Liverpool - 8b - 53.

Dickiesam

[Tina]

Hi D.S
There are quite a number of people listed as Prytherch in the next census afer 1901.
Could be worth paying for a look??

Tina

[Barbara B]

Having looked at the index on the census 1910-12 I see what you mean DS! Made even more mind-boggling by the spelling mistake. Well I hope it's a mistake otherwise, as my grandmother would have said 'what a name to go to the docks with'!
Many thanks for the info on Prytherick. I hadn't thought of Wales.
Twins do seem to run in the family don't they. I'm betting it's the right family so now to try and trace some of them down the years.
Tina - the next good deal on FMP and I've promised myself I'll sign up so I can search to my heart's content.
Thanks again for all the help.
Barbara

[dickiesam]

Seems I have to explain my joke? Re too much kiddies' TV...

From the free 1911 Index!

HOUSEHOLD> PRYTHERCH, YEBEDEE - M - 1877 - 34 - West Derby - Lancs.

Must be a mis-transcription because he's not in the 1901. Is this the John who married Margaret Worral in 1904?

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

Boiiiiingggg Time for Bed!

[Tina]

Hi folks
I've found Zebedee in 1891 census Cornwallis st
(near the Roundabout )
Prytherch
widow Mum Jane and 8 kiddies (God love her)

RG12/2945/39/10

Tina

[dickiesam]

And in 1881 Zebedee PRYTHERICK is here..
RG11 / Piece:3657 / Folio:104 / Page:31.

His father is George, a policeman, bn Wrexham. Family at 3 Higham Street.

If this Zebedee is the John who married Margaret Worrall I can understand why he might have decided to call himself plain John for a while. My Sunday School failed me so I had to find out who the 'original' Zebedee really was and discovered he was the father of James and John, two disciples of Jesus Christ.

Eventually found this:
Births Sep 1877> Prytherch, Zebedee - West Derby - 8b - 295.
FreeBMD has Zebedec but GRO has Zebedee.

PRYTHERCH, George E married Williams, Jane - West Derby - 8b - 654 - Dec qtr 1866.

Dickiesam