The George Katie found with a father Joseph and mother Mary is still in Everton in the 1901 census so he cannot be yours.
Hilary
Ed Officer
Thompson assistance please
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rparis
to all
great searching again to you all thanks a bunch and two lines of enquiry i see
Dickiesame: I agree and concur it just seemed the closest thing mate so was following the lead a bit (i've been knocking on this door since my dad died in 1985 and it's just doing my head in a bit mate thats all)
Education Officer: I do have the medals listed yes but the record card I found a long time ago gave me no birth date, the medals I found were and other details:
he went into the forces 12.12.1911 i think
victory medal/british war medal/star 1914-1915
the CL clasp and roses
Silver War Badge
and he was discharged on the 19/11/1915 under code 392 specifying ,sickness' and this was an early discharge code.
I think these details applyed to my george from the research i did anyway (but i am only an amuetuer so hope so.
I also agree about his age 3 not showing up but with an uncertain dad and no idea about mum it is hard to track him - could he of been in an orphanage or something?
I do recall my father saying his dad (this george) having some family who emigrated to America but the info is so vague i don't know if it has any bearing. My dad was seven when his dad died (This george died) so even what my old man remembers could be off somewhere.
thanks again
ric
Dickiesame: I agree and concur it just seemed the closest thing mate so was following the lead a bit (i've been knocking on this door since my dad died in 1985 and it's just doing my head in a bit mate thats all)
Education Officer: I do have the medals listed yes but the record card I found a long time ago gave me no birth date, the medals I found were and other details:
he went into the forces 12.12.1911 i think
victory medal/british war medal/star 1914-1915
the CL clasp and roses
Silver War Badge
and he was discharged on the 19/11/1915 under code 392 specifying ,sickness' and this was an early discharge code.
I think these details applyed to my george from the research i did anyway (but i am only an amuetuer so hope so.
I also agree about his age 3 not showing up but with an uncertain dad and no idea about mum it is hard to track him - could he of been in an orphanage or something?
I do recall my father saying his dad (this george) having some family who emigrated to America but the info is so vague i don't know if it has any bearing. My dad was seven when his dad died (This george died) so even what my old man remembers could be off somewhere.
thanks again
ric
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rparis
to Education Officer
Hi
If George W Thompson my grandfather has made up the name of his dad (and his trade I assume maybe then) how on earth am I supposed to locate his line?
this idea feels rather grim
ric
If George W Thompson my grandfather has made up the name of his dad (and his trade I assume maybe then) how on earth am I supposed to locate his line?
this idea feels rather grim
ric
Re: to Education Officer
You have to face a possibility that George may have been illegitimate which is why the father's details might be made up. If this turns out to be the case then if his mother never divulged that information to George, there is no way you are going to find it out.rparis wrote:If George W Thompson my grandfather has made up the name of his dad (and his trade I assume maybe then) how on earth am I supposed to locate his line?
I hope this is not the case, but you need to be aware that it might be.
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
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rparis
a thought
Hi all
Is it possible do you think that my George W Thompson of 1888 who was a cattle boy/servant at age 13 in nantmel in radnorshire according to the census living with another family of Thompsons, could have been an illegitimate child of one of their female family members who when found to be pregnant was sent to Liverpool to give birth?
Or vice versa, somebody in in the Thompson family in Liverpool sent an illigitimate distant relative to live out in sticks, sort of out sight out of mind kind of thing. Are there records for such places that would record such births in Liverpool at that time or not? work houses/orphanages
any ideas along this line of thinking from folks would be helpful - I am trying to think outside the box as they say now since I may be facing being unable to trace the father as named as he could simply not exist.
all the best - ric
Is it possible do you think that my George W Thompson of 1888 who was a cattle boy/servant at age 13 in nantmel in radnorshire according to the census living with another family of Thompsons, could have been an illegitimate child of one of their female family members who when found to be pregnant was sent to Liverpool to give birth?
Or vice versa, somebody in in the Thompson family in Liverpool sent an illigitimate distant relative to live out in sticks, sort of out sight out of mind kind of thing. Are there records for such places that would record such births in Liverpool at that time or not? work houses/orphanages
any ideas along this line of thinking from folks would be helpful - I am trying to think outside the box as they say now since I may be facing being unable to trace the father as named as he could simply not exist.
all the best - ric
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rparis
great minds and all that
her Mary A - we are thinking down the same lines I just am trying to think around it a bit if I can
ric
ric
The medals will have his regiment and number on the rim. What is this?
The details do not agree with those of the man George William Thompson born in Liverpool 1888 with an address Howey LLandrindod Wells who was in the Welch Fusiliers as this man was not discharged until later. This is the man whose papers I found on Ancestry.
There is something here that does not add up.
On the birth certificate that says London Rifles does it give his number?
Hilary
Ed Officer
The details do not agree with those of the man George William Thompson born in Liverpool 1888 with an address Howey LLandrindod Wells who was in the Welch Fusiliers as this man was not discharged until later. This is the man whose papers I found on Ancestry.
There is something here that does not add up.
On the birth certificate that says London Rifles does it give his number?
Hilary
Ed Officer
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rparis
to educational officer
Hi again
its me and my research thats wrong I can assure you!
I do NOT have the medals, sorry if it came across that i did, yes I am a member of ancestry.co.uk (basic package) and ages ago I got those medal details from a medal record card is it called and obviously I had tracked down the wrong george william thompson, there must be another one, I did say I am only having a go at this and muddling through it all.
May I ask what you have found that differs to what I had found then or can you point me in the right direction to look myself.
sorry if I am confusing anyone - i'm certainly confusing myself lol
ric
its me and my research thats wrong I can assure you!
I do NOT have the medals, sorry if it came across that i did, yes I am a member of ancestry.co.uk (basic package) and ages ago I got those medal details from a medal record card is it called and obviously I had tracked down the wrong george william thompson, there must be another one, I did say I am only having a go at this and muddling through it all.
May I ask what you have found that differs to what I had found then or can you point me in the right direction to look myself.
sorry if I am confusing anyone - i'm certainly confusing myself lol
ric
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rparis
williams birth cert
I do not have the birth cert of William Thompson my dads eldest brother and son of George in my possession i'm afraid my Cousin Alan has it in London, I only saw it briefly when Uncle Billy (William Thomspon) died a couple of years back and made notes from what was on it. I have asked delicately on several occasions for a copy but we are not a close family and they say they have mislaid it so it is inappropriate to keep asking. I keep my notes though and clearly the London Rifle Regiment was recorded on there (I have no regimental number recorded though sorry)
thanks for continuing to help out
ric
thanks for continuing to help out
ric
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rparis
to Educatational Officer
Hi again
As I said in my previous posting a little further back I got the information from a Medal Record Card that I pulled up quite some time back whilst trying to research George in general in the hope of finding a birth date - birth address - next of kin other than wife etc, I think it was either via ancestry or even from off the national archives site; i'm going back now to maybe 18 months or so ago.
I've just been on there again now (ancestry) and pulled up over 400+ entires of george thompsons (though when you look they are not all georges and certainly not all from liverpool) under military records, obvioulsy 18 months or so again i trawled through and thought I had 'found the one'. From what you said earlier of course my information conflicts with your information so I must not have found the correct medal card but now I can't even find whom I found before.
It don't half get confusing don't it lol
all the best and thanks a bunch for taking the time to have a look anyway in the way that you have - I bet you get tired of people posting requests to answer thier family riddles for them even if they are having a good go themselves.
best wishes - ric
As I said in my previous posting a little further back I got the information from a Medal Record Card that I pulled up quite some time back whilst trying to research George in general in the hope of finding a birth date - birth address - next of kin other than wife etc, I think it was either via ancestry or even from off the national archives site; i'm going back now to maybe 18 months or so ago.
I've just been on there again now (ancestry) and pulled up over 400+ entires of george thompsons (though when you look they are not all georges and certainly not all from liverpool) under military records, obvioulsy 18 months or so again i trawled through and thought I had 'found the one'. From what you said earlier of course my information conflicts with your information so I must not have found the correct medal card but now I can't even find whom I found before.
It don't half get confusing don't it lol
all the best and thanks a bunch for taking the time to have a look anyway in the way that you have - I bet you get tired of people posting requests to answer thier family riddles for them even if they are having a good go themselves.
best wishes - ric
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rparis
for Hillary
thankyou for that I shall do so tomorrow. Your assitance, and to everybody else too, has been gratefully recieved - if I find anything else out I shall post it back
best wishes to all - ric
best wishes to all - ric
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rparis
for Hilary and the War records
Hi Hilary
Thanks for the info which I have followed up today, there were 27 pages in all! I have copied them over to my computer and trawled through them to find some interesting bits and pieces though sadly no birth date. It did say on there though that he was 26 and no months during the initial T.A. medical, on the initial sign up forms, and the sign up date was on 11 November 1911, slim chance that his birth date was then possibly November? though I suppose they would have put 26 years and '0' in the month box in that case.
The confusing bit was that the box on the same sheet a bit further down on the same form was signed May 1912 so obviously the form was passed around a bit from the territorial medical offcier to the Military Examination 6 months later and finally signed of with a cert of approval on the same day in May.
By my reconning though, if you take 26 years away from 1911 (the sign up date when George was 26 according to the age on his sign-up papers) that gives a birth year of 1885 doesn't it?? so does that take me back to the drawing board as I'm looking at 1888 for birth years?
Head and brick wall comes to mind lol
all the best - ric
Thanks for the info which I have followed up today, there were 27 pages in all! I have copied them over to my computer and trawled through them to find some interesting bits and pieces though sadly no birth date. It did say on there though that he was 26 and no months during the initial T.A. medical, on the initial sign up forms, and the sign up date was on 11 November 1911, slim chance that his birth date was then possibly November? though I suppose they would have put 26 years and '0' in the month box in that case.
The confusing bit was that the box on the same sheet a bit further down on the same form was signed May 1912 so obviously the form was passed around a bit from the territorial medical offcier to the Military Examination 6 months later and finally signed of with a cert of approval on the same day in May.
By my reconning though, if you take 26 years away from 1911 (the sign up date when George was 26 according to the age on his sign-up papers) that gives a birth year of 1885 doesn't it?? so does that take me back to the drawing board as I'm looking at 1888 for birth years?
Head and brick wall comes to mind lol
all the best - ric
If having read all the papers you think he is your man you just have to widen the years of possible birth. Unlike us who are always being asked for our date of birth then it was a bit of a hazy affair. I guess he could have been born between 1885 and 1888.
First decide if those papers are your man. You then have more to add to the history of him as he served in the Territrials before joining the Welch Fusiliers.
I did consider he might have been the illegitimate child of David Thompson's sister but dismissed this as she married in 1888. Maybe I should reconsider. He could be a cousin's child. Possibly someone went to work in Liverpool.
Hilary
Ed Officer
First decide if those papers are your man. You then have more to add to the history of him as he served in the Territrials before joining the Welch Fusiliers.
I did consider he might have been the illegitimate child of David Thompson's sister but dismissed this as she married in 1888. Maybe I should reconsider. He could be a cousin's child. Possibly someone went to work in Liverpool.
Hilary
Ed Officer
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rparis
for hilary
Hi Hilary
thanks for your comments and for sticking with it a bit, oh and those papers are def. my georgy boy, the wife is the same, the addy in Howey near llandrindod wells is the same (my dad took me there as a boy and george is buried there in an old chapel graveyard I believe though I can not locate the records from powis archives or from writing to the local vicars), the marriage recorded in those papers is the same, even the birth of william his first child recorded in the papers is the same. I have no doubt that the 27 pages are belonging to the correct george and you are very right Hilary I do now know he was in the territorial army.
I guess you must be right on the hit-and-miss for the birth but it makes it so hard to track, for instance just look at the census saying he was 13 in 1901 at Nantmel as the cattle boy living with the other thompsons yes? - how can he then be 26 merely 10 years later when he was enlisted in November 1911 - there is a 3 year discrepency somewhere; this is what I have found all along that the timeline is way off. (However that does fit with his age at death as being 45 in 1930)
Your line of reasoning seemed interesting?
best wishes - ric
thanks for your comments and for sticking with it a bit, oh and those papers are def. my georgy boy, the wife is the same, the addy in Howey near llandrindod wells is the same (my dad took me there as a boy and george is buried there in an old chapel graveyard I believe though I can not locate the records from powis archives or from writing to the local vicars), the marriage recorded in those papers is the same, even the birth of william his first child recorded in the papers is the same. I have no doubt that the 27 pages are belonging to the correct george and you are very right Hilary I do now know he was in the territorial army.
I guess you must be right on the hit-and-miss for the birth but it makes it so hard to track, for instance just look at the census saying he was 13 in 1901 at Nantmel as the cattle boy living with the other thompsons yes? - how can he then be 26 merely 10 years later when he was enlisted in November 1911 - there is a 3 year discrepency somewhere; this is what I have found all along that the timeline is way off. (However that does fit with his age at death as being 45 in 1930)
Your line of reasoning seemed interesting?
best wishes - ric
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rparis
george buried in howey
I should say I know!
George is buried in a little chapel at howey nr Llandrindod Wells, My Uncle (dads brother) told me where years ago when he was alive and my dad took me to the plot as a kid (even though there dad died when they were young there mum took them every sunday to the grave) but as you do you never remember these things. Powis archives say they do not have the record of his burial, i wrote to the chapel and they said powis archives do so i was left unable to locate the information I wanted; this was once again in the hope of finding a date of birth from the records. I have the death certifcate and it is not on there.
just wanted to clarify that one Hilary as I seemed a bit vague before
Ric
George is buried in a little chapel at howey nr Llandrindod Wells, My Uncle (dads brother) told me where years ago when he was alive and my dad took me to the plot as a kid (even though there dad died when they were young there mum took them every sunday to the grave) but as you do you never remember these things. Powis archives say they do not have the record of his burial, i wrote to the chapel and they said powis archives do so i was left unable to locate the information I wanted; this was once again in the hope of finding a date of birth from the records. I have the death certifcate and it is not on there.
just wanted to clarify that one Hilary as I seemed a bit vague before
Ric
Glad he is your man.
Just to clarify dates of birth are not given on death certificates until late in the 20th century. Prior to that the informant gave the age they thought.
In 1901 he could be nearly 14 or there again he could have lied. What age does he give in 1911? Or he could have lied to the Army or he genuinely didn't know.
As for his burial place I suggest you check the actual records yourself. I would check for Howey and whatever is the next nearest church with a graveyard.
Keep searching sometimes these things take forever just ask the forum about my grandmother Elizabeth Jones!!! I eventually settled on the most likely candidate only to discover her grandfather confessed 7 years after marriage that his name was Brierley not Jones!! Still don't know if I have the right person! That's taken 10 years to get there.
Hilary
Ed Officer
Just to clarify dates of birth are not given on death certificates until late in the 20th century. Prior to that the informant gave the age they thought.
In 1901 he could be nearly 14 or there again he could have lied. What age does he give in 1911? Or he could have lied to the Army or he genuinely didn't know.
As for his burial place I suggest you check the actual records yourself. I would check for Howey and whatever is the next nearest church with a graveyard.
Keep searching sometimes these things take forever just ask the forum about my grandmother Elizabeth Jones!!! I eventually settled on the most likely candidate only to discover her grandfather confessed 7 years after marriage that his name was Brierley not Jones!! Still don't know if I have the right person! That's taken 10 years to get there.
Hilary
Ed Officer