John REDDING of Liverpool and Ireland (1840 - 1885)

[BurscoughLad]

I am a new member (Mar 2010) of L&SWL FHS so I am still wandering around the various bits of data that are available.

John REDDING lived in Everton, married to Sarah Ann CLARKE in Q3 1860 and was residing at 17 Anderson Street, Everton in 1871 & 1881.
The 1871 census records his birth in "Darrow Green, Ireland" about 1840. However, this could well be "Darragh" or similar sounding.
I have not been able to trace him in the 1861 census.
In 1871 & 1881, his occupation is recorded as "Deputy Superintendent, Board of Trade"

I suppose it is possible that in 1861, he had returned to family in Ireland with his new bride and possibly his first daughter (Ambrosine) born Q2 1861, so missing the census.

Could anyone suggest how I might penetrate this brick wall!!

Thanks

BurscoughLad
Mem No 7974

[Katie]

You could try looking in the 1862 Gores directory. His name could be mispelt on the 1861. Try the different spellings of the surname (Reading, Redin etc)

[Tina]

Hi B.L and a warm welcome
The 1861 census was taken on the night of 7th April.
In the familysearch site IGI, there is a baptism for Ambroseina 19/1/1862 St John's Old Haymarket, birth date 14/5/1861.(also Thos Wm 1863)
It's doubtful Sarah Ann would have sailed to and from Ireland at that time??
I "think" some of 1861 records were damaged??

Tina
Added later:

B.L
There's a baptism for Selina 20/5/1866 St Peter's Everton & a death sadly in 1870 aged 4yrs.
Also Eliza Lodge Redding 29/12/1867 death 1870 aged 2yrs.
(Interesting middle name)

This would explain the age gap in the children.

Beatrice 16/6/1869 bapt St P's.
Louisa Emma bapt 31/1/1872 Christ Church Gt Homer St.

[Tina]

I think I've got 'em in 61...

6 Napier Terr Everton
John Redding 22 bn Eng shipping clerk Board of Trade
"Janes" A Redding 21 bn Eng
no kiddies...
RG9/2712/113/35

Let's see what the crew think!

Tina

[Katie]

1862 Gores John Redding Shipping Clerk 6 Napier Street

1861 Census

John Redding Head M 22 Years born Shipping Clerk England
Jane A Redding Wife M 21 Born England

Baptism St John's Haymarket

Born 14th May 1861
Baptised 19/1/1862
Ambrosina
Parents John and Sarah Ann Redding
Shipping Clerk
Abode Everton Napier Street

to confirm the 1861 census is the correct entry which I think it is you could apply for the birth certificate for Ambrosina

[Tina]

Hi Katie
Let's see what the peeps say, they may have still been at Napier St at the time of baptism?

Tina

[BurscoughLad]

Wow!!

Thanks so much for the lightning sharp responses.
That will give me plenty to chew on for a couple of days

Regards

Ian

[Tina]

Hi Ian..........lovely name
We are so pleased to have been of help.
When I retire for my much needed beauty sleep the crew move in..
Cya soon

Tina

[MaryA]

Hi Ian, welcome to the forum.

I see both the night shift and the day shift have moved your problem onwards, great stuff girls!

[Tina]

Thanks Mary for calling us girls Made my day

Does Ian need to ask for a baptism look up do you think?
To confirm Napier St Address.

Also the marriage took place Holy T Walton Breck 1860.
A look up for this too? At least it may give a father's name for John?
Thanks for your help.
Tina

[MaryA]

Ah you're all young girls to me

There's already a look up request posting on the board, waiting for the next kind person who might be able to do a couple of look ups

http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9518

Why not add your requests on. Make sure you specificy a close date and the churches.

[Tina]

My apologies to Katie, I missed the baptism
Thanks to Mary for pointing out my gaff!!
Oh good oh we now know it's them in Napier..

Tina

[BurscoughLad]

Hi folks,

Thanks for all this effort on my behalf.

I think the thing that threw me about the 1861 census and Napier Terrace is the spouse name Jane A REDDING and JR's birth place "England".

Having checked out the actual record, it is definitely "Jane A", so there is not a transcription problem.

As has been pointed out, Ambrosine's birth cert will certainly help and I will sort that soon.

Question is that JR's place of birth is recorded as "England" but in 1871 & 1881 it is recorded as "Ireland"

Do these sort of errors happen regularly??

I have already experienced a transcription error in my wife's tree; "Grace Wainwright" was transcribed as "Gran Wainwright", which when checked was "Grace"
Regards

[MaryA]

Question is that JR's place of birth is recorded as "England" but in 1871 & 1881 it is recorded as "Ireland"

Do these sort of errors happen regularly??

You'll get used to it I'm afraid, we often put these errors down to enumerators error/child provided the information/guess on the part of a landlord/landlady. If you have two censuses with Ireland I would go with that I think.

[BurscoughLad]

Hi Folks,
I'm back again with more information on JR

Now got his marriage cert, which shows he was 22 on 19 July 1860.
His father was George REDDING, a farmer.

Also now know that there is:
Durrow in Co Laois
Dorrha in Co Tipperary
and various Daragh's scattered around Ireland.
and till one census JR was born in England

My thought is that wherever John was born - England or Ireland??? - I need to find a baptism cert for John around 1838 with George as father.

Have tried Lancs opc and BMD without any luck.
Also, can't find family on 1851 census.

Any suggestions please on how I might be able to progress this issue????

[dickiesam]

Hello Ian,
Wondering if you have checked out this death? The age is a match for your man.
Deaths Dec 1885> REDDING, John - 46 - W. Derby - 8b - 285.

Dickiesam

[Tina]

Any chance B.L you could copy paste the marr cert here??

If not please can you give us all the details??

Thank you

Tina

[BurscoughLad]

Hello DS

Thx for your note.
Yes, I have his death; it's the info prior to 1860, which is proving hard to track down with any certainty.
As I have indicated previously, I'm not sure whether he was born in England or Ireland because of census variations.
Can't find him on 1851 census, but he might not have come across from Ireland until after 1851. Can't see him coming on his own aged 13 years or younger, so would expect to see his father George somewhere about.
No joy on him either at present.
Also can't find George on 1861 census, so he might have gone back to Ireland after the wedding.

Have a great Christmas

Ian

[BurscoughLad]

Hello Tina,

Promise I won't mention the cricket!

Bet you're soaking up the sun down under.
It's pretty cool here - in the old fashioned meaning of cool - but us scousers are from hardy stock

My scanner decided to go on strike last week, so here is the info from the marriage cert.

Date 19th July 1860 at Holy Trinity Church, in the parish of Walton on the Hill (Walton Breck Road).

John Redding, 22, Bachelor, Clerk, (30?)** Castle Street, Everton.
Father George Redding, Farmer

Sarah Ann Clarke, 19, Spinster, - , 4 Richard Street, Everton.
Father Robert Clarke, Warehouseman.

Witnesses : Boyle Smith & Elizabeth Hewitson
Officiating Minister : Richard ? Moore.

** The 30 is uncertain as the 3 looks more like a 9, but there were only 40 houses in Castle Street. The name was changed to Foley Street to stop confusion with the Castle Street in the centre of Liverpool.

Marriage cert data is acknowledged as Crown copyright.

Have a great Christmas - - BBQ on the beach???

It'll be turkey and all the trimmings here with family around the table.
Who could want more?

Best wishes

Ian

[dickiesam]

Hi Ian,
I think we have traded notes before on John Redding. Because of his profession, first a clerk then a BoT Assistant Superintendent, I am very sure he was quite literate and able to read and write well. To work for the BoT he would probably have been quite well educated for the time. He probably came to England in the 1850s to work for the BoT. I'd say his parents stayed in Ireland.

I think the place-of-birth 'England' entry may well be an error by the enumerator. Don't forget that what you see as a census page is in fact already a transcription from the individual census forms collected by the enumerator after they were filled in by the householder. Errors were relatively common and even though some are outstandingly obvious, they can't be corrected because what the census page says is what you get. The individual household census forms were later destroyed once the information had been extracted. The beauty of the release of the 1911 is that you see the actual household census form as it was completed by the head of household and often bears the signature of your ancestor.

Also, more often than not in the 19th century it was the children who actually completed the household forms because their parents could not write.

Dickiesam