g,g,grandfathers birth 1805 liverpool

Post by **frank delamere** » 18 Oct 2010 20:54

i have tried for some years now, to try and find my g,g,grandfathers birth.
according to censuses he was born liverpool 1805
his name was JOHN DELAMERE, butcher, who married MARY CADDICK
jan 23rd 1837 at st nichlas church liverpool. he died 1858 in great crosby.
could he have been baptised at st nicholas being an r.c??
or was he born the wrong side of the blanket??
can anyone help please??
frank

Post by **Hilary** » 18 Oct 2010 21:50

At the time of his marriage unless you were a Jew or a Quaker you had to be married in the Established church ie C of E

Was he a catholic? if so you need to be searching their registers for his baptism. If you think he was C of E there are many Liverpool registers that are not available on line and he could have been baptised in one of them.

Do you know where he was buried as that might possibly give a clue?

Googling St Peter and St Paul RC Crosby I found burials for the church that appear to have some likely Delamere burials but no John!

St Peter and St paul registers from 1826 are at Crosby Library on film.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **simone** » 18 Oct 2010 22:25

Just for the crew so they can have a look see

1841 at Great Crosby
HO107; Piece 518; Book: 2 Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 31; Page: 14
John Dellamen 25 Butcher b in county
Mary Dellamen 27
John Dellamen 2

1851 census
HO107 Piece 2191 Folio 292 Page: 5
The Green, Gt Crosby
John Dellamere 46 Butcher employing 1 lad, b Liverpool
May Dellamere 37 b Gt Crosby
John Dellamere 13
Catherine Dellamere 8
William Dellamere 2
Thomas Dellamere 5 MO

name is open to lots of mistranscrition isn't it

I see there are a couple of Delamere burials in Toxteth Park Cemetery according to

http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/db ... search.htm

Simone x

Post by **Blue70** » 18 Oct 2010 22:57

Lots of RCs married at Our Lady & St Nicholas With St Anne C of E and St Peter's C of E. They would still consider themselves to be RC and would usually have their children baptised in an RC church.

Blue

Post by **Tina** » 19 Oct 2010 11:46

Hi Simmo
I like your census info, well done finding them with a "mangled" surname....

1861 has a John Dellamere 23 journeyman butcher and William 13 apprentice in Gt Crosby both born Gt Grosby.
servants for a cow butcher.
It has to be them from 1851??

1861 Mary is transcribed as Dellamerc (error sent to Anc#)
she's a widow butchers wife 49 bn Gt Crosby
Mother Margaret Caddick wid labr's wife bn Formby 74 yrs
Little Crosby Lane
granddaughter Olive Caddick 23 bn Lpool.

Tina

Post by **Tina** » 19 Oct 2010 12:07

'Lo tis me again
I wondered what had happened to baby Thomas from 1851
Ive found this in 1871 census
Thomas 20 lodger butcher bn Gt Grosby
prev page Mary DELAMERE wid 58 charwoman bn Gt Crosby lodging.
East St Gt Crosby.

Tina

Post by **frank delamere** » 19 Oct 2010 18:21

HILARY, SIMONE, BLUE 70, AND TINA "THANK YOU ALL" for your quick replies and help.
yes! he was a catholic, i do not know where he is buried, his wife is in st peter!s crosby., as are quite a few others. yes his marriage had him down as
DELLAMERE, one of his sons ,also john was down as delemere in st peters.
but! he had that changed, his wifes name was also wrong.SIMONE
that is one cemetery i have not checked out for john. i do have a lot of information about other delameres, but cannot link john to them.
i have the origination of the family name in 906,in france, with all names up to 1845 in ireland. my problem is, there are two lines to follow here in england.it is all an interesting story. i have helped four people, with the information that i have, to be able to make their final connections, they can now have their whole tree right back 906, i can only get back to 1805. with my grandmothers side i am back to the 1500s.so you may now see, just why
i would like to find john. "THANK YOU" one and all
frank

Post by **frank delamere** » 20 Oct 2010 21:02

SIMONE,toxteth cemetery did have a THOMAS DELAMERE aged 68yrs
he died in 1868, so was born 1800, married in 1844
NOW! it is quite possible, that he could be JOHN DELAMERESbrother,
john having been born in 1805/6. but i do not know their parents names
the name thomas runs through the family,

frank

Post by **Katie** » 20 Oct 2010 21:27

If John was Catholic I would suggest you look for his baptism. At the time of his birth there are not that many catholic records in Liverpool to search

St Mary's Highfield Street 1707
St Anthonys - 1804
St Peters Seel Street 1788

Post by **Hilary** » 20 Oct 2010 21:55

In 1841 Thomas Delamere says he was not born in the county. He does not appear to have a wife but has children.

In 1851 he has a wife Elizabeth so must have remarried in 1844 (there are 2 Thomas Delamere marriages recorded in that year) On that census he states born in Cheshire at something I can't read Massey. His marriage certificate would give his father's name and then armed with that you could find out whether he had a brother John.

To me Cheshire makes quite a lot of sense as when I saw Delamere I immediately thought of the Delamere Forest in Cheshire.

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **simone** » 21 Oct 2010 18:18

Hi Guys

Elizabeth married twice, reckon she was maiden name of Bryan and then became Cross/Croft and the Delamere.
on Ancestry marriage has her listed as 'Croft'

Dec q 1844

DELAMERE * Thomas BRYAN Elizabeth , St. Philip Liverpool 2123LP/6/65
DELAMERE * Thomas CROSS Elizabeth , St. Philip Liverpool 2123LP/6/65

anyways.. maybe if you could request a lookup of this marriage, Thomas' father would be on it, and maybe you will eventually tie him up to John that way

(the other marriage in Sep q 1844 was to a Julia Simpson)

I'm with you on the Cheshire thing Hilary... could it be Saughall Massie?

There are a number of Cheshire marriages in Cheshire BMD, but can't pinpoint anything definite.

A Thomas Delamere has witnessed the marriage of Sarah Delamere to John Bushell in 1842, according to the Cheshire Parish Register project site. Her father John, a Farmer.

btw who witnessed the 1837 marriage of John?

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 21 Oct 2010 18:40

just a bit of extra (probably useless info

)

from St Anthony's RC Church database

http://stanthonys-liverpool.com/general/aboutus.php

PAUPER BURIAL
Charles Delamere

Buried: Wednesday 15th September 1847

61y [calculated] MALE

Abode: Workhouse

Post by **frank delamere** » 22 Oct 2010 21:24

SIMONE,the charles delamere who you mentioned, was not related, his family originally came from france.settled in liverpool.
HILARY, you are correct, there are two thomas delameres, and they set me a chase i can tell you, first one was born BEAUMARIS ANGLESEY 1857
he was married twice, in 1881 he was a farmer, then he moved to great crosby as a butcher/slaughterman. exactly the same as my thomas delamere, again, theyboth lived in the same road.mine was also married twice. thomas [anglesey ] father was a daniel delamere, farmer/provision dealer, he was born upton cheshire in 1818.
SIMONE,THOMAS DELAMERE was married 24th dec 1822 at st anne richmond
liverpool.he wa a FARMER. he married CHARLOTTE MUCH
SIMONE the copy of JOHN DELAMERES wedding page 254 at st nicholas
showed the two witnesses as MARY ANN CADDICK and EDWARD LOVATT
margaret was a nun.[if my memory is correct]
again, i would like to thank you all for your help
best regards
frank delamere

Post by **Tina** » 23 Oct 2010 09:39

Hi

Just back to my post regarding 1861 census 19th Oct
I believe g/dghtr Olive 23 is in fact Alice who is with family in 1841 aged 3yrs. Not sure how she fits in with the rest of the Caddicks.

Well I never, in 1881 Alice is 43 bn Lpool, she's in the Sisters of Mercy Convent!
Perhaps Alice is the one who was a Nun as mentioned???
In the convent in 1871.
Tina

Post by **BurscoughLad** » 24 Oct 2010 20:57

Hi folks,
Just a thought . . .
Don't overlook Dunham Massey which is closer to Delamere than Saughall Massie