1841 census

[chez]

cannot find john sephton born 1819 on 1841 census although wed in warrington in oct 1841 and was there in feb 1841, can anyone help? with thanks, c

[garstonite]

Hiya C..
www.freebmd.org.uk
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
NONE of these sites have a marriage 1841 for JOHN SEPHTON...
have you spelt his name correctly ?
where did you get your info please ~?....allan

[Hilary]

www.cheshirebmd.org.uk has

John SEFTON married Sarah LEADBETTER Warrington Civil Marriage 1841

Is this your man?

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Tina]

For the crew
Monks Coppenhall Ches Forge St
1851 has John Sephton 32 bn Lpool coach painter, Sarah 28 bn Warrington,
John jr 12 bn Lpool, Ann 9, Edwd 6, Elzbth 4, Thos 6mnths.

If they married in 1841 Oct which looks good, John may be on his own in 1841 with little kiddie John jr??


1841 should be in Lpool??

Tina

Edited

[MaryA]

cannot find john sephton born 1819 on 1841 census although wed in warrington in oct 1841 and was there in feb 1841, can anyone help? with thanks, c

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Can you please tell us what evidence you have for his being in Warrington in February 1841? if it was a birth certificate for young John, what are the details, address, mother's name etc.?

Please also let us have the details from the marriage certificate, including any witnesses.

[Tina]

Hi everyone
Marriage took place in 4th qtr 1841.
In Anc## someone has put corrections in for both surnames.


Tina

[MaryA]

If Chez has the marriage in the October, yet evidence of where they were living in the February, could this be a clue to an earlier marriage? Need an answer first before we jump to conclusions perhaps.

[Tina]

Hi Mary
Yes the feb 1841 is interesting.
We will have to wait for Chez to reply as you suggested.

Tina

[chez]

thank you for all your replies! yes- i have john and sarah leadbeaters marriage in oct 1841 and johns first marriage to elizabeth brown in 1836, but elizabeth died in feb 1841 warrington plus a son henry the day after her, leaving john edward sephton age 3 (born liverpool) but i cannot find john edward or his father between feb when eliz died and oct when he wed sarah! the witnesses to john and sarah were a ivy harrison and jane jones, as far as i know no relation, i have the death certs for his wife that died and son and they were in dallam lane warrington in feb.hope this helps, chez.

[MaryA]

I suppose they would still be expected to be in Dallam Lane at census time but I haven't found them - if you want to check out the original images the road is at the beginning of Warrington District 18. There are not many dwellings in Dallam Lane (Enumeration Description gives east side and west side) but there were more in later years, I wonder if some were missed?

Thinking that he might have returned home to family, either his own or Elizabeth's do you have any details of his father? name and occupation perhaps from the marriage to Sarah and what address did John give then?

[chez]

hi, where can i look up the district for dallam lane that you have, i have never found elizabeths parents so i cannot say if they were there in 1841, as for his parents john was registered as not having a father only his mother "elizabeth sephton" as spinster, and i cannot find her either! its all so complicated I'm afraid! when he wed sarah both were stated as living at cosley street warrington.

[MaryA]

As you say that you "can't find" people, I'm assuming that you have a subscription to Ancestry or some other site that provides access to the censuses.

Search for a name in Warrington and on opening an image there is a line near the top of the screen for

Lancashire > Warrington > Warrington > District ##

Click on this District and you will see the boxes with Lancashire, Civil Parish - Warrington, Sub-Registration District - Warrington and then beneath that the Enumeration District. Choose District 18 and this will give you the first page of Dallam Lane.

as for his parents john was registered as not having a father only his mother "elizabeth sephton" as spinster, and i cannot find her either!

Where was this registration as marriage certificates don't usually give the mother's name?

You may be assuming the baptism at St Peter's is his, as it may be, but can you tell us what was on the marriage certificate for him and Sarah, in the space for the father's name?

when he wed sarah both were stated as living at cosley street warrington.

Crosley Street being where Sarah Leadbetter was living in the 1841 census.

[chez]

no sorry, dont have subs to ancestry now, but was on it until july, and i am sorry but i have tried to find these people but following through i found no connections, i am still searching, i will however subscribe again to ancestry and look at the dallam lane etc, it was not the marriage cert i found elizabeth (his mother) on, it was his baptism, i went to liverpool library/records, and found the parish record there, in fact we spent three days there but even with the help of the fam history society did not achieve much, johns wed cert has his father as edward sefton (stonemason) but even though there are edward seftons in liverpool related to stone-masonry i cannot tie one to john, and the fam his society explained that sometimes the fathers name was made up to save face, but john has used edward as his children's names and it is in every generation? yes- i have sarah,s 1841 census, but again no john? many thanks for your time. c

[Hilary]

I'm totally confused here.

In one post you say John has only a mother shown on his marriage certificate. On another post you say that John's father was Edward Sefton stonemason on his marriage certificate.

Please clarify which you mean.

Do you have his marriage certificate to Sarah Leadbetter? If so who does that say his father was?

There is a baptism of a John Sefton son of Elizabeth Sefton in 1819 at St Peter's Church Liverpool. This is on www.familysearch.org and on www.lan-opc.org.uk Why do you think this is your John?

If this is your John he would have been 17 when he married his first wife. Not impossible but.....

There were many churches in Liverpool at the time only a very small proportion of which are on line.

Taking the father as Edward as it says on the marriage certificate I would look at the problem from the other end and look for an Edward Sefton/Sephton stonemason track down where he is living via directories, work out possible churches in the area and then search their baptism registers for children of Edward.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[chez]

i thought i explained it clearly,i have stated that edward sefton as father on sarah and johns marriage, anyway- yes it is the baptism you state, i just posted this thread to look for john in 1841! i have tried the directories and churches about his father, but thanks for the advise.

[Tina]

Hi Chez
So, no Edward on baptism record for John yet his father is mentioned on marriage cert as a stonemason.
I couldn't find anymore baptisms through the batch number.

Perhaps we should look for young John in 1841? He could be with other people?
It's a long shot, there's a marriage for an Edward Sephton at St Peter's
1807 to Elizabeth Bolton.
I'm guessing you may have already seen this?

I asked the question on page 1 if the two John's would be in Lpool, what a twit...they will be in Warrington yes?

Tina

[MaryA]

i just posted this thread to look for john in 1841!

Believe me, this is what we are trying to do but we need the larger picture to be able to see all aspects and that is why we ask more questions - as I have another couple - What was John's age given on the marriage certificate to Sarah and work back from there and can you confirm that his status was given as Widower?

I don't feel that I would accept, without further proof, that the baptism of John, mother Elizabeth with no father, is your John, especially in view of the age he would be at first marriage, there are many churches where he could have been christened, some not even available online.

[chez]

yes tina -- this is what i am after , john in 1841, i do have eliz bolton and edward wed in 1807, but the only baptism i could find in 1819 was john with mother (spinster) no father, so elizabeth sephton on it (the mother) did not get wed! if- its the right baptism that is. and yes both johns were in warrington i should think!

[chez]

mary a- on the wed cert both stated "of full age" and that john was a widower,i have all the census,s until john died and all seem pretty accurate on his age, working back he was born 1819, on his death record it says john was 76 (1895 when died) and he was born in 1819, although i have no cert on this i found this on the web, and where people have put it on. i did go through a number of churches in liverpool reord office but time ran out. and i live in leics so have to go when i can.

[Tina]

Hi again Chez
This might seem like a daft question, but it said "spinster"on the baptism record?
The record I found in familysearch beta site just states the mother's name but doesn't say she's unmarried.

tks

Tina