James Frederick Allen

Post by **shirley** » 27 Aug 2010 17:00

Could some kind person look up the 1841 census for me please

I have James frederick Allen and family in 1851 onwards in Liverpool.,They were all born in the St martin district of Birmingham, the last child I have being born in 1834. Some time between this date and 1851 they came to Liverpool.
I would like to know where they were in 1841,( Liverpool or Birmingham)
The family I have is as follows
James Frederick Allen b 1804
Anne (also known as Nancy) wife born 1806 in Cumberland
children Thos A b 1830, James F b 1831, William h b 1833,( I presume deceased) William b 1834, Joseph s b 1834
I would appreciate any help
Shirley

Post by **simone** » 27 Aug 2010 18:13

Hi Shirley

Was James a Lampmaker?

1841
HO107; Piece 1145; Book: 6 Folio: 60; Page: 9; Line: 19
at Bartholomew Street, Birmingham
James Allen 35 Lampmaker
Ann Allen 30 looks like b Scotland
James Allen 9
William Allen 8
Joseph Allen 6

no son Thomas

Simone x

Post by **shirley** » 27 Aug 2010 19:26

Hi Simone
Thank you so much. Yes this is my James. He was always a brass worker in the censuses, but in the Liverpool directory 1862, he was down as a chandelier maker and gas fitter. Anne was born according to the 1851 in Cumberland, Scotland. I am very grateful for this info. Thank you
Shirley

Post by **Tina** » 28 Aug 2010 08:56

Hi Shirley

I can't make out where Ann was born in 1851.
As you said she's born in Scotland in later census.
Perhaps someone else may come up with the answer??

Tina

HO107/2185/298/24

Post by **Hilary** » 28 Aug 2010 11:49

It looks like Cumberland (abbreviated as the county) and Croft Head as the place.

There does appear to be a place in Cumberland with this name possibly near Carlisle but I don't have a large enough scale map to find it..

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **dickiesam** » 28 Aug 2010 13:22

If this is the Allen family in 1871 <RG10 / Piece:3801 / Folio:81 / Page:19> Ann is again shown as being from Scotland.

While the name Croft Head appears to be popular in Cumberland, and a place of that name is somewhere near Carlisle, I am wondering if the enumerator misheard in 1851 and wrote 'Cumb' for Cumberland when the place was actually Cumbernauld [near Glasgow], Scotland.

In the 3 censuses I have found her ['41, '51, '71], 2 specifically indicate Scotland. If you google 'Croft Head' with 'Cumbernauld, Glasgow', you will get several hits so it could be a place there as well. I don't think Cumberland was ever regarded, in 'recent' history anyway, as being part of Scotland.

Where is she is 1861?

Brian

Post by **northmeols** » 28 Aug 2010 13:43

many parts of lower cumberland and upper lancashire merged for parishes.. I only know of one place called crofthead near carlisle and it is a manor house outside of netherby....I am inclined to agree with Dickiesam

Post by **shirley** » 28 Aug 2010 16:29

Thank you all for your look ups. James and Anne were living in 111 Vine st in 1861 census (this was off, Myrtle St). 1871 Park Rd, James died 1874.at the Park Rd address In the 1881 census Anne was living in Cockburn St, which is near Park Rd. I do not have her in the 1991 census, but she died in 1894 in Cockburn St, so I think she probably was living there at the census time. And yes , thank you, Croft head is mentioned
I now know that they came up to Liverpool between 1841, and 1851
I am grateful for all your input. Thank you again
Shirley

Post by **dickiesam** » 28 Aug 2010 20:12

Just to further confuse, or perhaps solve, the issue of where Ann Allen was born, I think this is her in 1891 with ALLAN instead of ALLEN.... and she has aged a bit. YoB now 1807, she's added at least 4 years.

ALLAN, Ann - Head - Widow - 84 - 1807 - Longtown, Cumberland.
ALLAN, Jos Samuel - Son - Widower - 55 - 1836 - Brass Finisher - Birmingham.
ALLAN, Mary Ann - Dtr - Single - 29 - 1862 - Transferer - Liverpool.

Address: 103 Cockburn Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
RG12 / Piece:2931 / Folio:71 / Page:28.

Looks like my assumption that her origin is probably Scotland is likely to be incorrect. Longtown and Croft Head are quite specific and I beg leave to withdraw my assertion that the enumerator was deaf in 1851!

Longtown is close to Carlisle here at CA6.5SE [the post code of the town's noted hostelry!].

Brian

PS: Haven't send in a correction because Allan is on the census page.

Post by **northmeols** » 29 Aug 2010 04:52

possible marriage

IGI
Marriages:
JAMES ALLEN Spouse: NANCY KENT Marriage: 24 NOV 1829 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Extracted marriage record Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M010723 1796 - 1817 0919779-781 Film 6900689 Film
M010723 1817 - 1831 0919782, 0919783 Film NONE

Post by **Tina** » 29 Aug 2010 11:02

Hi folks

There is a Crofthead near Arthuret in Cumbria in Google Maps also an Arthuret St in Longtown Cumb.
FHS have a baptism for Ann Kent 25/10/1806
Arthuret Cumb parents James Kent & Eleanor Coulthard
No other children thro the batch number.

Tina

Post by **northmeols** » 29 Aug 2010 14:45

check out the newspaper archives here

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CUL/Lo ... index.html

Post by **shirley** » 29 Aug 2010 16:02

Hi All
Thanks once again
Morthmeols thanks for the marriage, yes that is them.

Dickensian 1891 census. Joseph Sam was her son, and Mary Ann was the daughter of Samuel, who obviously went to live with Anne when his wife died.

Tina Thanks for the baptism, will keep that info. Have no idea who her parents were.

I had put the Allen family one side ,but now I am concentrating on them. A couple of days in Birmingham is on the cards, even though I was down there last week, but not on FH searching.
Wherever Anne was born, it was a long way from Birmingham, I wonder how she came to be there?.Travelling was not very easy pre 1829.

DICKENSIAN It came up that I had a PM from you, but cannot access it, it mentioned the SHIPWAY name.
Shirley

Post by **northmeols** » 29 Aug 2010 19:07

Longtown is close too Netherby just north of Carlisle. Crofthead is a huge farm/estate between the two towns. they are very close to Gretna Green and the scottish border

Post by **dickiesam** » 29 Aug 2010 19:24

Wherever Anne was born, it was a long way from Birmingham, I wonder how she came to be there?.Travelling was not very easy pre 1829.

I would assume she came down for work, probably as a servant. If she was in some way connected to the Croft Head estate, perhaps the owners had lands in the midlands.

DICKENSIAN It came up that I had a PM from you, but cannot access it, it mentioned the SHIPWAY name.

Access sorted! And I may be old but I am not Dickensian!

Brian

Post by **shirley** » 29 Aug 2010 19:52

OOPS sorry Dickiesam. Should have gone to specsavers

Post by **Tina** » 30 Aug 2010 10:13

We've only your word about that Brian

Tina

Post by **Tina** » 30 Aug 2010 10:33

Hi

1871 Anc## have Thomas A 12 as the son of James instead of Joseph.
I've tried to send a correction with no luck.
Could young Thomas be Allan in 1881 lodging in Birmingham bn Lpool
21 yrs, brass finisher....(born Thos Alfred sep 1859 Lpool??)

Tina

Post by **dickiesam** » 30 Aug 2010 12:09

We've only your word about that Brian
Tina

Word about what, Tina?
Honestly, I don't wear starched collars or write with a quill pen anymore but I have been drawing the OAP for umpteen years now and am not quite into my V111th decade!

Brian

Post by **shirley** » 30 Aug 2010 14:57

Tina.
Yes that Thomas A in Birmingham is correct.

As for all the Thomas A in the family, this is a name come right down. My father was the last Thomas Alfred, but the Thomas is still here as far down as my grandson.
Thanks everyone
Shirley

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