Marriage - James Keefe & Elizabeth Ashley

Post by **PK10** » 23 Aug 2010 17:55

Hello iam hitting a brick wall in searching for a marriage of my Great Grand parents, i have checked the Gro records with no luck (1900-1912),
Their names are James Keefe and Elizabeth Annie (ann) Ashley, on the 1911 census it states that they have been married for 6 years and at this time were living in Warrington however the children including my grandmother were all born in West Derby any suggestions would be helpful thank you,

James Keefe drowned 1st October 1914 in the Mersey at Bank Quay Wharf whilst working on the docks age given 38.

Post by **simone** » 23 Aug 2010 20:30

Hi, welcome

do you have any other info? where was Elizabeth/ James from? do you have any birth certs for the children?

There is a marriage in Warrington 1903 for an Elizabeth Ashley to either Herbert Carter or William Smith

could she have been married before

Simone x

Post by **PK10** » 23 Aug 2010 20:51

Hi Simone, My grandmother Elizabeth Jane Keefe was born in Liverpool at 23 Butler street in April 1907 her brother James was born in 1906, Elizabeth Annie Ashley was born in 1887 in West Derby, James Keefe going off the Death Certificate was born in 1876 Liverpool, There is a family with a James Keefe in the 1881 census of which the head is listed as Andrew, this fits as My Grandmothers second brother was called Andrew however i have no way i can be sure without the Marriage certificate,
Thank you PK10

Post by **CaroleW** » 23 Aug 2010 21:10

Hi

It's quite possible they never married despite the 1911 entry

My friends grandparents are a good example. Their first child was born in 1889 but they only married in 1915. However - on the 1911 census - they showed 20yrs married

Post by **simone** » 23 Aug 2010 21:31

Hi

I can't find a marriage either

perhaps they didn't bother

I can see the family you mentioned in 1881, 1891 & 1901.. no sign of James in 1901

for the crew

1881
RG11; Piece: 3711; Folio: 16; Page: 26
at Ash Grove
Andrew Keefe 47 coppersmith
Jane Keefe 49
Jane Keefe 12
Sophia Keefe 7
James Keefe 4 b Liverpool
Mary Ann Morrison 66
Eva Mogrrige 38

1891 at Oakleigh Grove, West Derby
RG12; Piece: 2997; Folio 45; Page 82
Andrew Keefe 56
Jane Keefe 56
Jane Keefe 22
Sophia Keefe 17
James Keefe 15 scholar
Kate Cunningham 26

1901 with daughter Sophia Allford and her family
RG13; Piece: 3486; Folio: 27; Page: 45
Andrew Keefe 68
James Keefe 70 - image says Jane

what was the occupation of James

do you know if he had a middle name?

-

Post by **PK10** » 23 Aug 2010 22:40

Hi Simone, I do not know if he had a middle name untill i got my Grandmothers Birth Certificate i didn't even know his name, the death certificate lists him as a casual dock Labourer aged 38, i visited the Warrington Library and managed to locate the newspaper report of the inquest at the time of his death he was working for Joseph Crosfields, as the family was young my Great Grandmother remarried and little or no information was passed down,
I think James may be listed in Manchester in 1901 as a Circus attendant

Thank you for your help so far PK10

Post by **CaroleW** » 23 Aug 2010 22:46

When your great grandmother re-married did her marriage cert show her as a widow?

Post by **PK10** » 23 Aug 2010 23:51

Hi Carolew I have not pursued Her Marriage to her second Husband, so i cannot tell you if she is listed as a widow,

Thank you for your help

PK10

Post by **Katie** » 24 Aug 2010 06:05

Were they catholic? may be worthwhile looking for baptism of the children to get godparents etc

Post by **PK10** » 24 Aug 2010 07:50

Katie, The honest answer is i do not know, i suspect that James may well have been a catholic , however i do not believe Elizabeth Annie Ashley to have been, apart from my grandmother Elizabeth Jane who went to any church lol non of the children of Elizabeth Annie were religious but i believe them all to have been protestant,

Thank You PK10

Post by **simone** » 24 Aug 2010 10:27

Hi

As Carole suggested I would have a look at the second marriage... who did she marry? you may find she married as Ashley not Keefe

did she remarry in Liverpool

could the witnesses be a clue

Are there any clues on your own grandmother's marriage cert.. e.g could the witnesses lead back to the Keefe family in some way?

Simone x

Post by **Tina** » 24 Aug 2010 11:05

Just to add about census between 1910 & 1912
they are all born Lpool.
Edith bn Warrington maiden Ashley in sept qtr 1911
Florence ditto bn mar qtr 1914

Tina

Post by **PK10** » 24 Aug 2010 11:36

Hi Tina, Elizabeth Annie had after her husbands death four further children Annie keefe, Edward Keefe and two further children with the surname jefford on Annies birth register on the GRO INDEX it lists her name as KEEFE

Thank you all for your help and suggestions thus far PK10

Post by **Tina** » 24 Aug 2010 12:26

For the crew
births
Leslie A Jefford maiden Ashley bn Warrington
1st qr 1926

Maud 3rd qtr 1928 as above

Anc@@ have a marriage in 2nd qtr 1935 of Edward Jefford
brides name Ashley in Warrington 8c 413
Spouse not connected so I looked for Elizabeth A Ashley same
qtr, Edwd listed as Jeffard that's why they weren't connected.
8c 413
This would be one very interesting marr cert to send for

Tina

Post by **PK10** » 24 Aug 2010 19:34

Hi Tina, i did know that Annie and Edward Keefe were actually jeffords but was unaware that Elizabeth Annie only got Married in 1935

i was under the impression that they were married around 1920

Post by **Tina** » 25 Aug 2010 08:04

Hi PK

I had a look in Free BMD which gives same info so I looked at the original transcript and it says 1935 for deffo.
While in Free BMD I looked for a marriage for Edward using soundex with no results.

Tina

Post by **simone** » 25 Aug 2010 09:15

Hi

Could someone look for these people about 1910/12

just bugging me that I can 't find this James Keefe

clutching at straws really

imagination probably running riot

but would like to eliminate him

In 1901
RG13; Piece: 3419; Folio: 59; Page: 5

Ellen Keefe 32 married no sign of husband
Edmond Garrette 12
Eugine Garrette 10
James Keefe 6
Bridget Keefe 3

Marriage-

Ellen Garrette to James Matthew Keefe
Mar q 1900- Liverpool

James Matthew Keefe died sep q 1943 age 76.. so born c 1877..

Sorry don't want to cause confusion but would like to rule them out for my own sanity.. because they keep popping up at me

Thanks

Simone x

Post by **PK10** » 25 Aug 2010 23:55

I am thinking of ordering the death certificate of Jane Keefe who died jan-mar 1911 i think this may be James mother, in the hope that james may have reported the death, it is very difficult as after James death the family became isolated from his side of the family line i want to be sure that i can align him to this family as i can then get back to 1841, thoughts please

Once again thank you all for your help PK10

Post by **Tina** » 26 Aug 2010 12:28

By the next census 1910 to 1912
there is only one Garrette, George bn in Staffs aged 6yrs.
I suggest the surname has been "mangled"..
Tina

Post by **MaryA** » 26 Aug 2010 12:39

More than just the surnae I think, I tried the Eugine being fairly unique, but even checking the "starting with" and just using the first three letters it didn't throw up any results that could have been mistranscribed.