Hedwig Ema Gray

[Seymour]

Hedwig Ema Gray was the widow of Frederick William Gray she died on 26 Dec 1979 at Broadgreen Hospital her home address was 62 Bentham Drive Liverpool 16. I would like to know where she is buried and the date of Frederick’s death. There is no record of her in the municipal cemeteries. Hedwig was born in Germany 7/2/1906.
Any help would be appreciated.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

How have you checked all the municipal cemeteries? Have you contacted Allerton Lodge who would hold the registers for all burials in those cemeteries? http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Community_a ... /index.asp

Have you also considered that cremation was quite popular at that time?

Also it might help to know the religion, perhaps of Frederick as she may have been buried with him?

There is only one Frederick W Gray death in Liverpool and that was for Liverpool North 10d 593 in Q1 1955, age 49, but I'm doubtful that Liverpool North would be the right area, unless Hedwig moved after he died, maybe his death was registered without the William having been noted. More information would really be needed as to when he was last known to be living.

[Blue70]

Looking at that address if she was Church of England she might be buried at All Saints Church, Childwall. I'll have a look around the churchyard next time I'm passing.

Blue

[Katie]

Also a search of the death notices in The Liverpool Echo may give where the service was held and what mode of burial/cremation took place.

[garstonite]

Hiya Seymour....I suppose being as late as 1979 there is every chance Hedwig was Cremated...was Hedwigs name Gregor ?...did she marry in London in 1936 ?....if so she was 30 when she married...was it her first marriage at 30 , or had she been married before ?
I am not trying to confuse you , just letting you see that maybe one of her children has / had her ashes ...all different avenues you have to investigate.....
I am not sure what year Springwood Crematorium opened , but Anfield Crematorium was open in 1979...maybe someone has access to the records of the Crematoriums .....allan
OK Just checked ...Springwood opened in 1975...
http://www.keepbritaintidy.org/GreenFla ... ?parkID=34
here is the phone number for the Memorial Gardens...if she is in Springwood this contact will tell you....she may be with Frederick....allan

[Seymour]

Mary A, Blue70, Katie, garstonite,
Thank you for your most helpful replies. Yes I tried Allerton Lodge my telephone and the RC cemeteries. I’m hoping when I find Hedwig I will find William. He was Baptized 30 July 1905 Frederick William Linz and born 25 May 1905. In November 1934 he changed his name by deed poll to his mother’s maiden name Gray his address then was 142 Princess Road Liverpool 8. He married Hedwig in 1936 the certificate shows he was a telephone engineer. I’m going to order the death certificate you found and hope for the best.
I think Liverpool connection is due to the fact that the Isle of Mann is close. Frederick’s father was interned in 1914 and his wife Louisa Julia Linz may have moved to Liverpool to be near her husband. After the war the father was repatriated to Germany and I can find to trace of husband or wife since.

[MaryA]

Before rushing into sending for a certificate with so much uncertainty, I wanted to say that you should specify that you only want it if the address was right, although if he had died in a hospital that would complicate that, but suspect it would be either his wife or perhaps the eldest child who registered so state that and perhaps the occupation.

The marriage certificate to Hedwig should show their address at the time and I wonder if a search of the electoral registers would prove of benefit, also working backwards from Bentham Drive to see how long she had been there and alone, might pin down a date.

[Seymour]

Thank you Mary A. Too late already placed order. I had no idea I could stipulate certain criteria when ordering a certificate. I will follow up on Monday your suggestion on searching the electoral register to see the length of occupancy. Incidentally the informant on her death certificate was a neighbour at number 66; strange he should know her date of birth.

[MaryA]

Oh people chat, or he might have found documents, I wouldn't read too much into it. I just hope the cert is the right one, but I have doubts.

[Blue70]

I've had a good look around the more recent burials at All Saints, Childwall and I couldn't see any graves for the surname Gray.

Blue

[Seymour]

Blue 70,

Thank you for looking.

[Seymour]

Mary A,
I understand that the Liverpool Central Library is closed for development.
Do you know who I can contact to conduct a search in the electoral roll for 62 Bentham Drive? I want to ascertain how long Hedwig Gray had lived at the address.

[MaryA]

You will need to wait until the records are re-located and available again for research, hopefully this will be only a matter of weeks, keep an eye on the update for news.

If you need to hire a researcher to do this, let me know by pm and I'll pass you some details.

[Seymour]

Mary A,
I would be grateful if you would pass me the details of the researcher.

[MaryA]

I've asked somebody to read this posting and they should be in touch with you soon.

[Seymour]

MaryA,
Thank you for Frederick William Gray’s death reference. The death cert arrived this morning. He died 22 March 1955 same hospital as his wife Hedwig. Next I want to find his mother. Her name could be Gray, Linz or she could have remarried. I can find no record of change of name by deed poll.

[MaryA]

Well done, I'm glad it was the correct certificate, at least it confirms his date of birth.

It's doubtful that there would have been an official change of name, it probably wasn't really necessary, she would have just used her choice and it would have been accepted, but hopefully if she was using "Gray" before the birth of Frederick then they may be found together in the 1911 census.

OK I've just refreshed my memory on this line of research and noticed that you say

He was Baptized 30 July 1905 Frederick William Linz

Where did this baptism take place?

I have just checked the 1911 census INDEX and discovered that there is a Frederick William Linz born approximately 1906 living in the Edmonton district of Middlesex. Again from the index I have worked out that there are also living in the household
FREDEERICK Linz age 34 and Julia Louise Linz age 29.

I would suggest that you obtain the full details of this family as it seems at least possible that they are yours and see what other information it gives you. Obviously it should confirm where they were born, but also it will tell you how many years they had been married so you may be able to search to see if the marriage possibly took place in England.

At the very least a more definite date of birth would assist in a search of the death indexes, although if she returned to Germany with her husband when he was repatriated then I suspect your search will continue there.

[Hilary]

Frederick's marriage to Julia is on Ancestry. It took place in Hackney in 1904. She is said to be 22 giving a birth in 1882. This only produces one possible candidate in the 1901 census who was born in Aberdeen but living in Hackney.

Do you have papers about Frederick's internment? I'm just wondering if they have anything at the National Archives.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Kebs]

Married 7 years

Frederick Snr born Germany
Julia born Aberdeen
Frederick Jnr born Wood Green Middx

Kebs

[Seymour]

Thank you all for your input.
I never ordered Frederick Linz/Gray’s birth certificate as the baptism image in Ancestry (London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 for Frederick William Ling, who ever transcribed this made a small error should read Linz) is very clear, in the margin the vicar has helpfully entered the date of birth. Coincidently on the opposite page his cousin was baptised 10 September 1905 Louisa sister also married a German citizen, George Hans Max Schoening.

I did not order Frederick and Louisa marriage certificate as the Ancestry image is also excellent (London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 Record for Frederick William Linz).

I purchased the 1911 census image for Frederick and Louisa Linz and I also purchased Louisa’s Scottish Birth information.

The father was repatriated from the Alexander Palace Internment camp unfortunately the papers and records of Internees I understand were lost in the London Blitz. I have no evidence but I think Frederick William Linz spent sometime in the Isle of Mann Internment camp and Louisa moved to Liverpool to be near her husband. I also imagine that Hedwig’s father William Gregor may have been there also.