Dyer/Dalton

[LOLLIPOP]

Hi
I have been researching a part of my family tree which contains the names Dyer and Dalton
Rose Dyer my G.G. Grandmother born Rosa in 1886 to James Dyer and Julia Ann Dalton
I have not been able to trace Rose or her parents in the 1901 census
Whilst doing a general search of Julia Ann Dalton I was surprised to see her pop up in the 1901 census, although married she is living with her sister Jane and Lizzie aka Elizabeth in Toxteth. These siblings match up with census records before Julia married.
Two of her sisters Adalaide and Mary married Franklins.
I decided to look at the original document as so many have been transcribed wrongly
I was surprised to see living in the same house but not on the transcribers records a Rose Dyer aged 25 and the head of the household living with her brother James
My G.G.Grandmother Rose Dyer did have a brother James whose birth year matches the one on the census, yet Rose is stated as 25 instead of 15
Living next door are the Franklins
Can anybody shed light on why my GGG.Grandmother Julia Ann Dalton would not use her married name. Also why my GG.Grandmother Rose Dyer would have a different age and not be stated as Julias daughter
James Dyer Roses father died before 1906 when Rose married Henry Bentham
I am posting this on another forum
Lorraine

[dickiesam]

RE:

Can anybody shed light on why my GGG.Grandmother Julia Ann Dalton would not use her married name.

If you have the right Julia, the main reason for not using the name Dyer could be that she wasn't actually married to James Dyer. Do you have a marriage and certificate? It is possible that when she registered the birth she said she was Dyer and married. If the registrar knew she wasn't married she would not have been allowed to name the father on the birth cert.

RE:

why my GG.Grandmother Rose Dyer would have a different age

Possibly to have a rent book and get a couple of extra rooms for the 'family' and she may have been told to lie to the enumerator, a man in 'authority'. And folk often lied about their age to get work. And census enumerators did not ask for proof of age.

RE:

and not be stated as Julia's daughter

Census returns are based on households not houses [ie addresses]. You will often find two or three or more households at a single address. According to what the census enumerator was told Rose is head of 'her' household at 10 Godwin Street [probably just one or two rooms!]. Julia is not head of a household at that address but Jane Dalton is and Julia is shown as her sister. Relationships are based on the relationship of an occupant to the 'head of household'. Incidentally both Jane and Julia are single.

Dickiesam

[Prescot]

There is a death for a James Dyer age 43 in 1900 in Liverpool.

Julia Ann is Dyer again by 1911. She is living with her son James, his wife
Margret and their son John. Julia Ann is listed as a widow.



Prescot

[Prescot]

Class RG12 Piece 2995 Folio 67 Page 6

James Dwyer 40 General labourer Ireland
Julia A 36 Liverpool
John 8 scholar --
Rose 4 --
James 2 --

The name is shown as Dwyer.

[dickiesam]

Class RG12 Piece 2995 Folio 67 Page 6

James Dwyer 40 General labourer Ireland
Julia A 36 Liverpool
John 8 scholar --
Rose 4 --
James 2 --

The name is shown as Dwyer.

Hi Prescot,
Well spotted! Did you notice that further up the page at House #1, Court #12, there's another 'Dwyer' household headed by Winifred aged 49, a widow, with 2 children? Related?

Brian

[LOLLIPOP]

Hi
I do not have a marriage and because Julia Ann's age varies it is more difficult
I have her being born between 1851-55
There are 2 Julia Daltons who married James Dyers in Liverpool
Also in census returns she is sometimes born in Ireland then Liverpool!
Rose's birth certificate states that her father James was a bricklayers labourer
I was told that the Dyers originated from Ireland and before that Spain where their name was Diaz and they changed it
Yet it seems that it is the Daltons who originated from Ireland
I also ahve them as DWYERS and yet other people who have these names in their tree have Julia's mother as Mary Ann Dwyer and yet on her brother Patrick J Daltons birth another researcher as her as Mary Jackson

Lorraine

[MaryA]

There are 2 Julia Daltons who married James Dyers in Liverpool

Can you please give the details of these two marriages and where you got the information from

[LOLLIPOP]

Hi Mary

It was my friend who did some research and emailed me to say that she had found the 2 marriages
In fact she had not, she meant that she had found births
I have found no marriages for them in Liverpool or Ireland

Lorraine

[MaryA]

The marriage took place at St Peters, Liverpool in the 2nd Quarter of 1883.

The reference to order from the GRO is Liverpool 8b 213.

The bride's name was Julia Emma, not Julia Ann.

[LOLLIPOP]

Hi Mary
I looked at theose records a while ago and when you click on to see the original record there is no D'Alton there
Then when you click on James Dyer it says no image available

Lorraine

[dickiesam]

This is the marriage that MaryA found.
Marriages Jun 1883:
D'ALTON, Julia Emma - Liverpool - 8b - 213.
DYER , James - Liverpool - 8b - 213.

Looked at the Index and I think that, apart from the first name in the list, the apostrophe D'A could well be a typing error for the rest. It is an unusual name and there are just too many D'ALTONS [abt 35 of them!] and no DALTONS. In that same year the other 3 qtrs show loads of DALTONS but no D'ALTONS. It is possible that the first marriage in the list in the June qtr is in fact a D'ALTON and the rest are DALTONS. So I'd say Julia Emma is a DALTON.

James DYER is in the index as DYER.

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

I looked at theose records a while ago

Dickiesam has given a clear response about the bride and groom of the marriage.

What I am suspecting that you don't understand is that these are NOT records. What you are looking at either on FreeBMD, Ancestry, Findmypast are transcriptions from INDEXES only, they are not records and will give no further information. The reference given, in this case Liverpool - 8b - 213, is the information you must provide to the GRO in order to get the correct Certificate - ie "record".

When there is an image missing, this is not a record, it is the page from the index that has not been linked correctly to the index transcription.

You can also check the indexes at a Record Office or library with a family history department.

There are various ways that you may obtain this certificate -

by applying to the GRO using the above reference.
by applying to the Liverpool Register Office, print out the Application Form partially completed for you by clicking the reference link to the marriage listed on the site http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
by obtaining a photocopy of the Register of St Peter's where the marriage took place - either waiting until the Liverpool Record Office makes their records available in the new venues, or checking with either Huyton or Crosby Library to see if they hold a copy of the Register.