1871 Census. Daniels

[moya]

I am unable to find John and Hannah Daniels on the 1871 census. I have two death dates for a John Daniels, 1868 age 53 and 1871 age 50. As he was born in 1819, neither of these dates match exactly. I found Hannah on the 1881, widow living in Hornby St. But as I can't find either of them in 1871, I can't decide which of the death dates may be correct. They were living in Blenheim Street in 1861. Hoping someone may have a suggestion on how I could find them. Thankyou. Moya

[MaryA]

To assist anybody trying to be helpful, it's usually best to provide all the information that you have. To do this I've tried to piece together the census information from other years, so if it is incorrect perhaps you could clarify.

In 1881 - 45 Court 1 House, Hornby Street, Liverpool
All born Liverpool
William Wilcox Head M 47 Labourer
Jane Wife M 39
Jane daur 16 Domestic Servant , Elizabeth daur 14 Domestic Servant, Margaret 10 Scholar, John 8 Scholar, Emma 4, Hannah 1 month
Hannah Daniels Mother in Law Widow 60 Domestic Servant
RG11; Piece: 3597; Folio: 63; Page: 61

In 1871 still in Hornby Street, 8 27 Court, William Wilcock 38 is a Miller, Jane 29, and daughters Jane 6, Elizabeth 4 and Margaret 1
RG10; Piece: 3759; Folio: 103; Page: 15
So Hannah isn't with daughter then.

In 1861 in 2 No. 7 Court, Blenheim Street, Liverpool
John Daniels Head 43 Fisherman
Hannah 42
Jane 19 and also John son 8

living close by are
William Wilcock Head Widr 63 Dock Labourer
with his children Ann 33, William Widr 29 Dock Labourer, Ellen 8 and Mary 10
RG9; Piece: 2653; Folio: 128; Page: 38

As John Daniels will be only 18 his mother might be with him, can you tell us the details for him in the 1871 census? or are we looking for both of them?

[dickiesam]

There's a Hannah Daniel here in 1871. Not unknown for names to be slightly out: RG10 - Piece:3861 - Folio:159 - Page:4
Liverpool Union Workhouse, Whiston, Lancashire.

If her spouse John had died she may well have been there, and her son may have died as well. Her child John may be here. The age is about right if he was 8 in 1861. Deaths Mar 1869: Daniels, John - 15 - W. Derby - 8b - 415.

Dickiesam

[moya]

Have checked the whole of St.Martins, districts 27 and 29, on the 1871 census. Found Hannah's daughter-in-law Charity Daniels, but she wasn't with her and she wasn't with her own daughter Jane Wilcocks. The Hannah Daniels in the workhouse was described as unmarried and a lunatic, so I guess they wouldn't have let her out for the 1881 census. No sign of the son John either, so I think he may be the one who died in 1869. Many thanks for your suggestions. Regards Moya

[dickiesam]

The Hannah Daniels in the workhouse was described as unmarried and a lunatic, so I guess they wouldn't have let her out for the 1881 census. No sign of the son John either, so I think he may be the one who died in 1869. Many thanks for your suggestions. Regards Moya

Hi Moya,
Just a thought.... If Hannah had a serious nervous breakdown after losing a husband and a young son, she may well have been described as a 'lunatic' and she was, after all, 'unmarried, abeit a widow. The term 'lunatic' had a very wide definition back then and she may have been in no condition to tell anyone anything except how old she was. Maybe she couldn't tell anyone where she was from either. And they say time heals, so maybe she got better in time?

I can't find another candidate for her in the 1871 despite extensive wild card searches, all counties.

Dickiesam

[Tina]

Hi folks
It's doubtful she would have been sent to a workhouse in Whiston, surely West Derby?
The fact she is with her dghtr in next census proves it cannot be her.
Where she is in missing census, I don't know
It does look like young John died.
Try again

Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi,
Not clutching at straws to 'support' a premise here, but was the Liverpool Union at Whiston attached to the County Asylum at Rainhill?

And I see no reason why, when sanity had returned, she shouldn't be with her daughter in 1881. If Hannah had indeed had a breakdown sufficiently serious enough for her to be called a lunatic, there was no way her newly married daughter could have cared for her in Jane's home in 1871.

Just thinking.....

Dickiesam

PS for Tina: What a notable event in Australia! A woman from the Welsh valleys in Glamorgan has become the first female Prime Minister, and she was only taken to Australia because of her asthma I believe.

[Tina]

off topic
One smart lady Dickiesam, the unions love her.
Her husband/partner known as "The First Bloke"...
I think she'll call an election fairly quickly.
Tina

[Katie]

Dickiesam is correct. Residents from Liverpool did go to Whiston Workhouse and the Prescot Union Board of Guardians would charge Liverpool Union for her stay there. She may have been admitted to Liverpool Workhouse and transferred to Whiston. A look up in the Liverpool Workhouse might be worth trying.

[Tina]

You have your opinion, I have mine.
No way did they leave a lunatic asylum to live with a daughter and become a domestic servant.
Hannah is single, this info comes from the people who interred her in the asylum.
Tina