Mary Ann & Catherine Jones - is this the one? Comments p

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Hi folks, have been going goggle eyed looking at census combinations with no luck - maybe this is it.

I'm seeking a Mary Ann Jones born 1860/61 to a Catherine ? (brn1840) & William Jones (Mariner)

On find my past 1861 census I have found a large household as follows

Wilkinson Peter Head married M 50 b 1811 Foreman born Clifton Lancs
Wilkonson Ann wife married F 40 b 1821 Whitehaven Cumberland
Wilkinson Mary Ann 14
Wilkinson Maria 8
Wilkinson James 4
Wilkinson Ellen 2 all born Liverpool
THEN
Jones Catherine Daughter in Law Married F 21 b 1840 Seaman's wife born Whitehaven Cumberland AND
Jones Mary aged 9 mths b 1861 born Liverpool Lancs
There are also 3 boarders listed
RGO9 Piece 2675 Folio 55 page 40

I'm not sure if her being a daughter in law means she is a Wilkinson or is she related to Ann Wilkinson as they were both born in the same place. Can someone explain how daughter in law was interpreted at this time. I am feeling very hopeful for the first time - I do have 2 other records of 1 year old Mary As one a grandaughter and one adopted to explore if this one fails.
Looking forward to comments
cheers

[MaryA]

Not sure what you think now I have the entry for 1851 - transcribed Williamson but definitely reads Wilkinson

5 Court 7 House, Blundle Street, St Thomas Liverpool
Peter Wilkinson Head M 41 Porter? Lancashire Preston
Ann Wife M 31 Cumberland W'haven
Elizabeth Lenton Step Daur 13 Tobacconist Lancashire Liverpool
Catherine " " 11 At school " "
Mary Ann Wilkinson daur 4 at home " "
James Wilkinson son 2 months " " "
James Campbell Lodger 45 Porter Cumberland W'haven
John Carr visitor 22 Sailor " "
HO107; Piece: 2181; Folio: 615; Page: 42

Although the handwriting doesn't look like it, the surname could be HANLON since there is a marriage in 1837 Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended between Ann Campbell and John Hanlon.

You are right in assuming that "Daughter in law" could mean both interpretations at that time, either wife of son or step daughter.

Let me know what you think of this family. I believe the parents may have died before 1871 and whatever is left of the family scattered, Mary Ann having married a Richard Morgan (32 from Newport, Wales), marine Engineer and living St Clement, Lancashire and young Ellen living with them and their child Mary A age 4.
RG10; Piece: 3805; Folio: 85; Page: 43

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Thanks Mary - food for thought. I will look at the original. The 1861 information is the only Catherine and Mary (?Ann) Jones that I have been able to find on either Ancestry or Find my past so if the Catherine from 1851 married a William Jones I may have my link. The 1861 Catherine was listed as having been born in Whitehaven Cumberland so that gives me further stuff to follow.

I have found 1871 & 81 census entries for a Mary as a servant which may be mine- she could have met John Winrow (a carter) at the service entry!

The witnesses at Mary Ann's wedding to John Winrow were a Charles and Elizabeth Hankins - could the surname be Hankins?

Enjoy your weekend
regards

[MaryA]

I don't think it's Hankins, it looks very much like Lenton/Linton/Lanton to me, but does anybody else have any ideas?

I only suggested Hanlon because of the link with Campbell.

[MaryA]

Possible
Elizabeth Linton 17 August 1835 Saint Peter, Liverpool
Alexander Strachan Linton 25 April 1838 Saint Peter, Liverpool
both to parents Robert Linton and Ann

No entry for Catherine

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Hi Mary - been distracted by new baby - the 1861 census has the Catherin of interest born in Whitehaven, Cumberland. I have found the following in 1851 census

Catherine Linton 11 born Parton, Cumberland a Parish of Whitehaven.
others in the householdare
Ann Linton Head widow 46 Pauper, Labourer born Parton, Cumberland
Mary Ann daughter 18
John son 16 Collier
Jane daughter 8
and Thomas Garrett 41 Lodger Gentleman possibly born Wittingham

HO107 Piece 2436 folio 212 page 16 gsu roll 87117 (have just found the small print on the ancestry printout!)

Catherine was baptised on 5/2/1840 parents John Linton & Ann at Holy Trinity Whitehaven.
Found a marriage for John Linton and Ann Sprowl or Sprawll 20/9 1832 at same place.
I'm thinking that John Linton was Ann Wilkinson's brother and that the Catherine of interest was staying there whilst her Seaman spouse was away.

Have not been able to find a marriage for William Jones and Catherine as yet but I will keep tryng - it does say married on the 1861 census.
I've sent for another Mary Ann Jones birth certificate - will get lucky one day.
Regards

[MaryA]

First of all - are you putting any criteria on your orders? At least that way they will refund part of your money if it's the wrong one.

If you contact the GRO they will also do a three consecutive year search for you, you specify the years and the criteria and they will charge you - I think it's £11.50, which is the price of a certificate plus search fee - if you have already lost a few search fees then this way is sometimes cheaper. Email them and ask how you can order this search.

I don't know if you have Catherine's marriage yet to ? Jones

FreeBMD has an entry Q2 1858 Liverpool 8b 89 - four names listed but I discovered the other two listed on LancashireBMD married to each other so these two remain.

Matthew Jones to Catherine Harrison Linton

LancashireBMD has this marriage listed for Catherine under the name "Harrison" instead of Linton, but looking at the image for the GRO register Catherine Harrison Linton seems to be correct. The marriage took place in St Peter's Church, LIverpool. Why not start with a request for a look up for this marriage first and see if it's accurate - the main points to look at will be Matthew's occupation and the address.

Reading back over your posts, I notice that you have Catherine's husband as William ..... so maybe I'm wrong, but if you can get a look up it won't be more money down the drain for a certificate but could produce valuable results.

[MaryA]

Something is wrong here.

If you believe your first entry for the Wilkinsons including Catherine and Mary Jones are your family then the details I gave for 1851 are the same family.

However, if you believe that the family you have found in 1851 are the right ones then they are in the 1841 census living in the Township of Parton with John Linton, 35 Coal Miner, Ann 35, Eleanor 13, Elizabeth SPROWL 11, Mary Linton 8, John 6 and CATHARINE 1. HO107; Piece 157; Book: 9; Civil Parish: Moresby; County: Cumberland; Enumeration District: 14A; Folio: 10; Page: 15

(Ann's birthplace in 1851 is Distington, as is Mary Ann and John's)
This Catherine, born 1840 in Parton is a servant in Mineside? Cartmel and Lower Holker, Lancashire for an Elizabeth Wilkinson 48 and her sister Mary Benn 44 from Corney, Cumberland in 1861.
RG9; Piece: 3165; Folio: 40; Page: 21

So these two families aren't the same ones, but it's funny how the name Wilkinson crops up with the Lintons.

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Hi Mary looks like it is back to drawing board. I will await the outcome of my latest birth certificate request - I did ask for a reference check. I will follow up your suggestion on the 3 year look up although I haven't seen any reference to this being available for on line requests.

I was hopeful because the birth place of the 2 Catherine's was different - perhaps the Catherine Jones in 1861 was actually born in Liverpool not Whitehaven. I have not been able to find any sign of Ann, Elizabeth or Catherine in the 1841 census in any search engine - any suggestions?

If the Jones husband is a Matthew not William it would be a shame. I really thought I was finally close - not to worry.

Regards

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Still on the trail of my great grandmother - received a birth certificate yesterday for a Mary Ann Jones that ticks all the boxes that is Father William Jones, mother Catherine but I don't think it's the right one.

The father - William is a Tailor (Journeyman) - my Mary Ann's father was a mariner according to her marriage cert. When I checked this family on 1861 census the mother is 5 years older than my Catherine - who is listed as 81 years old on her death certificate in 1921. The older Catherine was born in Ireland whereas my dad always thought that his Jones connections were Welsh however that could have just been the name.

I have finally learnt how to get a number of references checked at the same time at the GRO - hadn't seen the link at the bottom of the reference check page before so have requested checks for a number of Mary Anns at once. Much cheaper and more efficient in the long run - just a slow learner I guess.

cheers

[MaryA]

Sorry you'ved had such bad luck with your Mary Ann Jones, it's such a common name but a stumbling block you have to get over

Hope you have some luck with the GRO, it could be worthwhile writing to the Liverpool Register Office with the same sort of request, they may not charge you until they find the one you want. http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/registrars_office/index.asp but they do generally take a lot longer.

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Thanks Mary GRO will be checking 4 possibles - the fee was 16 pounds which is cheaper than one at a time! It just reminds me how lucky I am to be doing this all now and not in the pre internet age. Just being able to use this forum has been a terrific advantage.

Our new little "twig" has been in & out of hospital with jaundice in the last couple of weeks so my family history work has been curtailed somewhat - onward & upward now.
cheers

[S_Lawler_Lee]

Could not have done this without the forum Guess what! I have the birth certificate for Mary Ann eventually. Have a few spares that are incorrect Tried the 3 year check, as advised in the helpful information at start of forum. and put the information that we had gleaned from marriage lookups, census and hunches. It has been some time but I can now add 2 generations to my tree. Mary Ann is my gt grandmother. her mother catherine Linton was born in Whitehaven! I had her burial certificate and that is what star5ted me off on the search.

Thank you Thank you Thank you I am currently on holiday in Alice Springs but had to let you all know

Yippee.

Now if I could only fid Peter Lee as a child......

[MaryA]

Aah a Town Like Alice!

Glad you got it sorted out Sandy, and if you forward your spares to Peter Jones (Editor of the Journal) he'll advertise them for you in the next Journal in case they will benefit somebody else.

[Tina]

I remember Neville Shute's book so well as a young one.
He said "it's purple all round the Alice"
It took me 30yrs later to see it..

Just going back over post, did we get the marriage for Catherine Harrison Linton single father Joseph 13/5/1858 to Matthew Jones single father Matthew?

Yes we did you dope Tina...she was listed as Harrison in Lancs BMD
DOH...