Please could someone help me with a couple of questions relating to my family history?
1) In the 1911 census, my great-grandmother Annie Jones was living at a public house at 25, Old Hall Street, Liverpool. Her daughter Mabel is listed as "Licensee and Manageress". Does anyone know the name of the public house at this address - and perhaps have some information about what type of establishment it was?
2) In the 1901 census my great-grandfather, Richard Orford, listed his occupation as 'Railway Station Master'. He was living in Toxteth Park. Is there a resource that would give the name of the railway station where he worked?
A Pub and a Railway Station
Phil
Welcome to the forum. We hope you will find your answers.
I have a copy of an official 'City of Liverpool Licensing Report Book' dated January 1909, but although Old Hall Street (where I worked for years) has ten licensed premises listed, no. 25 is not one of them. Are you sure that is the street number of the premises and not a serial number? None of the licensees is named 'Mabel'.
It may be that things had changed between 1909 and 1911.
As for Toxteth, that was quite a wide area, and would include several stations. The Cheshire Lines had St. Michael's, still open today, but there were also goods stations which might have a stationmaster. If you post more details, including his name and address, a railway expert might be able to say more.
Daggers
[grandson of a Fifer!]
Welcome to the forum. We hope you will find your answers.
I have a copy of an official 'City of Liverpool Licensing Report Book' dated January 1909, but although Old Hall Street (where I worked for years) has ten licensed premises listed, no. 25 is not one of them. Are you sure that is the street number of the premises and not a serial number? None of the licensees is named 'Mabel'.
It may be that things had changed between 1909 and 1911.
As for Toxteth, that was quite a wide area, and would include several stations. The Cheshire Lines had St. Michael's, still open today, but there were also goods stations which might have a stationmaster. If you post more details, including his name and address, a railway expert might be able to say more.
Daggers
[grandson of a Fifer!]
M. no. 31
25 Old Hall Street
Hi Phil,
Just to confirm that in the 1901, from reading the actual census page, #25 Old Hall Street is almost certainly a pub. It was being run by William and Elizabeth Hall, "Public House Manager" and his wife, [both working at home].
Surprised Daggers didn't find it in the Licensing Report Book. Had it been omitted for some reason?
According to http://www.ukpubfinder.com/browse/500/44/ it is now Brokers Cafe Bar, 25-31 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, Merseyside. Is anyone familiar with it?
Dickiesam
Just to confirm that in the 1901, from reading the actual census page, #25 Old Hall Street is almost certainly a pub. It was being run by William and Elizabeth Hall, "Public House Manager" and his wife, [both working at home].
Surprised Daggers didn't find it in the Licensing Report Book. Had it been omitted for some reason?
According to http://www.ukpubfinder.com/browse/500/44/ it is now Brokers Cafe Bar, 25-31 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, Merseyside. Is anyone familiar with it?
Dickiesam
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
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BurscoughLad
Station master
Hi Phil,
My pre grouping (1923) gazeteer shows the following stations on the surface line from Central towards south Liverpool:
St James
Brunswick (Goods)
St Michaels
Otterspool
Mersey Road & Aigburth
Cressington & Grassendale
Don't forget that the Overhead railway had stations as well.
Terminus was at Dingle, which would be within the Toxteth Park remit I would guess.
Hope this helps
My pre grouping (1923) gazeteer shows the following stations on the surface line from Central towards south Liverpool:
St James
Brunswick (Goods)
St Michaels
Otterspool
Mersey Road & Aigburth
Cressington & Grassendale
Don't forget that the Overhead railway had stations as well.
Terminus was at Dingle, which would be within the Toxteth Park remit I would guess.
Hope this helps
Hi 1911 Gores/Kellys (most of which was recorded in 1910)
has no pub name
Miss Mabel Myfanwy Jones lic. vic
(cnr Fazakerley St)
Tina
has no pub name
Miss Mabel Myfanwy Jones lic. vic
(cnr Fazakerley St)
Tina
- Tina
Cornthwaite,Milburn,Coll,Gaffney,Pearce,Singleton,Hazlehurst,Cuthbert,Mackintosh,McAllister,Morana, Corfield
Any census/bmd information within this post is Crown Copyright from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
The Licensing Report Book has this under "2 Fazakerley Street -Cotton Exchange Vaults, licensee Mabel Myfanwy Jones", fully licensed.
The entry has been amended by hand - no appln. for renewal 1926.
It was opposite the Cotton Exchange which opened in 1906.
On the railway question, Otterspool, Mersey Road and Cressington were outside the Toxteth area but it would be easy to travel on the line from within T. Park. In the steam days, several of these stations shared a stationmaster.
D
The entry has been amended by hand - no appln. for renewal 1926.
It was opposite the Cotton Exchange which opened in 1906.
On the railway question, Otterspool, Mersey Road and Cressington were outside the Toxteth area but it would be easy to travel on the line from within T. Park. In the steam days, several of these stations shared a stationmaster.
D
M. no. 31
Hi Daggers
I'm so pleased I mentioned Fazakerley St, only because pubs were always on a corner location back then!!
Woo hoo....
Tina
I'm so pleased I mentioned Fazakerley St, only because pubs were always on a corner location back then!!
Woo hoo....
Tina
- Tina
Cornthwaite,Milburn,Coll,Gaffney,Pearce,Singleton,Hazlehurst,Cuthbert,Mackintosh,McAllister,Morana, Corfield
Any census/bmd information within this post is Crown Copyright from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Try www.maps.google.co.uk and when you have zoomed in on Fazakerly Street/Old Hall Street, change to satellite view and you will be able to see that No. 25 on the corner definitely is a building which would have been an old style pub.
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
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BurscoughLad
Corner Pubs
Hi Tina,
We once counted the corner pubs on the bus route from Skelhorne Street to the Old Roan (on a Ribble bus).
There were 72!! It is roughly 7 miles!!
Hic
We once counted the corner pubs on the bus route from Skelhorne Street to the Old Roan (on a Ribble bus).
There were 72!! It is roughly 7 miles!!
Hic
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Phil Jones
Thank you everyone for responding so promptly with your helpful replies.
The question about my ancestor's pub appears to have been fully answered: (a) It had no name (b) It was on the corner of Old Hall Street and Fazakerley Street (c) It was opposite the Cotton Exchange (d) It was almost certainly a down-market establishment.
As regards my station-master great grandfather, here is some further information:
(a) His full name was Richard Edgar Orford (b) At the 1901 census he was living at 52 Bowring Street, Toxteth Park. (c) He was still a station-master when his daughter got married in November 1906. (d) He died in September 1908, aged 52 (e) He was a first-aid enthusiast, and my father told me that he won at least one first-aid competition (f) I have a photograph of him as a sergeant in a uniform that appears to be that of the St. John Ambulance.
Is it possible that there are records of St. John Ambulance personnel and/or first-aid competitions (possibly organised by a railway company)?
The question about my ancestor's pub appears to have been fully answered: (a) It had no name (b) It was on the corner of Old Hall Street and Fazakerley Street (c) It was opposite the Cotton Exchange (d) It was almost certainly a down-market establishment.
As regards my station-master great grandfather, here is some further information:
(a) His full name was Richard Edgar Orford (b) At the 1901 census he was living at 52 Bowring Street, Toxteth Park. (c) He was still a station-master when his daughter got married in November 1906. (d) He died in September 1908, aged 52 (e) He was a first-aid enthusiast, and my father told me that he won at least one first-aid competition (f) I have a photograph of him as a sergeant in a uniform that appears to be that of the St. John Ambulance.
Is it possible that there are records of St. John Ambulance personnel and/or first-aid competitions (possibly organised by a railway company)?
-
BurscoughLad
Corner Pubs
Did you know that you could walk out of Liverpool WITHOUT passing a pub??
Starting at the Town Hall . . .
Something to think about
Starting at the Town Hall . . .
Something to think about