Birth Records

[yappie]

Hi Folks
I am a new member and have been researching the maternal side of my family for about 6 years. My Grandmother was born in Bootle to parents who came over from Southern Ireland. She had 12 siblings all of whom I have found birth records for but Grandmother I only have birth year 1893.
The first 2 girls were born in Walton Workhouse - no father's name on their birth certificates - before their mother married in 1895 so I have assumed that Grandmother was also illegimate.
Her name was Mary Welsh but she married in the name of Ruddy, I have researched every Mary Ruddy and Mary Welsh between the years 1892 and 1894 with no luck and wonder if any of you very knowledgeable people have any suggestions as where I can look next.
Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Yappie

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Member 8005

Researching Ruddy Welsh McCormick Murphy

[dickiesam]

Hi and welcome,
One reason for the change of name when she married could be that her mother was previously married to a Ruddy, or her father was a Ruddy. How do you know she changed her name when she married?

Can you post the names and YoBs of some, if not all, of Mary's siblings? And the year of her marriage as Ruddy?

Do you have her mother's marriage cert? If yes, can you post the details from it?

Dickiesam

[germaine cowell]

Have you tried spelling it Welch.
Sorry not much help.
Germaine
x
there is this one may be after they married though.
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1895
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WELCH Mary Toxteth Park Liverpool TP/375/10

[Tina]

Just to add Mary A Welsh married James Ruddy 1895
WDby R.O or registrar attended so probably R.C

Tina

[Hilary]

On the www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk site there is a baptism at the workhouse of a Mary daughter of Mary Welsh in 1894. Could this be the child you want?

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Tina]

Well done E.O
I only looked for the marriage

Tina

[yappie]

Well done Hilary - that could be the one ??
Her mother was Mary Ann Welsh who married James Ruddy 1895.
First two sibs were Julia Welsh b 1889 Walton Workhouse no father on birth certificate - Margaret Welsh b 1891 Walton Workhouse d 1892 no father on birth certificate. Julia married in 1909 as Ruddy.
Would it be possible for me to obtain a copy of the baptism record you mention as I have previously tried the website you mentioned but came up with "no record".

Tina you were spot on also - thank you
Yappie

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Member 8005

[MaryA]

It is most certainly there if you search for Mary Welsh with date 1894. It also gives a reference 282-NIC-4-3B (174) which makes me think that the baptism may have taken place in St Nicholas Church - somebody correct me if this is incorrect please. So if you are able to get to the Liverpool Record Office you could check this register for yourself.

[dickiesam]

Hello Yappie,
Go here: http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... cbaptisms/

Enter 1894 and Mary Welsh and click Submit.
This is the middle one of 3 hits:
1894-249 - WORKHOUSE - 282-NIC-4-3B (174) - 1894 - 1894 - MARY WELSH - MARY WELSH [mother]. - REQUEST FORM.

Click on the Request Form button and you will see a Baptism Cert application.

Dickiesam

[Tina]

What do you think crew 1901 census, tks Tina

Julia Ruddy 11Mary 8 Patrick 6, James 4, Kate 2, Ellen 2mnths
all born Bootle
Mother listed as Margt 32 bn Bootle
James Ruddy 34 bn Bhead Ches dock labr

[MaryA]

Looks good to me our Teen - are you up late burning the midnight oil?

[yappie]

Thank you all. Tina you are spot on. Mary A I think we are on the right track and Dickiesam I folowed your idiot's guide and found it and have applied for a copy. Will let you know when I receive the record and if I have hit the jackpot????
Very many thanks to all of you.
Yappie

[Katie]

Children who were born in Liverpool Workhouse were baptised in St Nicholas Roman Catholic Church. Copperas Hill Liverpool. With the previous children being born in Walton Workhouse we should be looking for a baptism that took place in St Francis de Sales Walton. There should be a entry of the mother going into Liverpool Workhouse along with a address, if I get a chance I will look up the entry tomorrow.

[yappie]

Kathy
It is very kind of you to offer to help - unforutnately I live in Essex and not able to visit Bootle. If there is more information you need please let me know. I would like to add that I visit Essex Records Office regularly and if anyone needs help in the Essex area let me know.
Yappie

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Member 8005

[Katie]

In the 1891 Census James Ruddy was residing in Dundas Road Bootle as was Mary Ann Welsh/Walsh. This came under the Roman Catholic Parish of St Alexanders Bootle. The records for this church were destroyed in 1941 during the blitz. Its possible that this is where Mary Ann Welsh and James Ruddy married.

[yappie]

Katie you are right Mary Ann and James were married at St Alexanders February 1895 and I have the marriage certificate. Ancestry mistranscribed her name but it is actually correct on the original page of 1901 cencus. 1891 cencus is also incorrect Ancestry transcribed Julia b 1889 not as Welsh but as Julia Rooney age 14 ???? James was living with his parents at 80 Dundas Street whilst Mary as was living as a lodger with Julia at No 98. Next door at 100 Dundas Street was James' sister Julia. Sorry to confuse you all.

Again many thanks for your interest and help
Yappie

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Member 8005

[Tina]

Hi everyone
On thing we know from 1891 was that James was born in Birkenhead when he was with his parents Patrick & Julia Dundas St.
Confirms 1901 birthplace for him?
Off topic, his sister Margaret 18 was born in Broadoak Parish.
Rest of his sibs in Bootle.

1891 for Mary A Welsh 20 single hawker at No.98 has Julia Welsh 11/4 m dghtr guessing she was 11 weeks old? which would be correct with her birth year? born Walton on the Hill. There are some letters after daug which I can't make out.

Patricks info
RG12/2972/17/28

Tina

(Hi Mary, yes about burning candle, we'd been to a 65th burpday, home late for us, I just need to wind down some )

[MaryA]

I did a google on this and guess what - it would seem that somebody is already researching this family and apparently they must have a lot of information. Perhaps you should both get together and compare notes, maybe it will prevent any duplication of research by our wonderful forum members.

http://www.bootlehistory.co.uk/forum/vi ... ulia+ruddy

[yappie]

Hi MaryA
Yes I know of this person - he is my cousin and funnily enough the information he was trying to confirm was what I had given him - he is like that???
Again thank you very much for your help
Yappie

[dickiesam]

Hi everyone
On thing we know from 1891 was that James was born in Birkenhead when he was with his parents Patrick & Julia Dundas St.
Confirms 1901 birthplace for him?
Off topic, his sister Margaret 18 was born in Broadoak Parish.
Rest of his sibs in Bootle.

1891 for Mary A Welsh 20 single hawker at No.98 has Julia Welsh 11/4 m dghtr guessing she was 11 weeks old? which would be correct with her birth year? born Walton on the Hill. There are some letters after daug which I can't make out.
Tina

Hi,
The words after the entry for Julia are 'Daug of do'. In English = 'Daughter of lodger' because the 'do' is ditto under the 'lodger' entry for Mary.
It looks to me as though Julia's age is either 1 and 1/4 years, or someone made a mistake, partially wrote 1 and should have written just the 1/4.

Dickiesam